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[Serious] The Story
RE: The Story
(August 26, 2022 at 11:34 am)Jehanne Wrote: Okay, state your evidence, please.

We have to start with an understanding of the book’s own claims, and several things are evident: The time period the book claims to have been authored (Daniel 2:1), the first-person authorship of Daniel (Daniel 10:2), and the book's claim to be about future events (Daniel 2:29). A Bayesian approach means any further information has to be used to modify this position.

1. The linguistics of the book—its vocabulary, grammar, and syntax—are consistent with, even slightly hinting towards, the period mentioned in the book. Similar consistency regarding the Babylonian names has also been found. This information increases our confidence in the date.

2. Other studies suggest that the Old Testament canon was closed by the second century BC. And the presence and popularity of Daniel at Qumran, as observed in fragments in the Dead Sea Scrolls, likewise suggest that its date of composition predated the second century. The book of Ezekiel, a contemporary of Daniel (and likewise found in the dead sea scrolls) has a less contested authorship and appears to mention Daniel. Again, this information is consistent with the initial date.

3. My own personal contribution comes from studies of narrative in cognitive science. There's consistency between the first-person accounts in Daniel, and the way people narrate personal experience. Even if someone wishes to argue that fiction can emulate such experience, they are still constrained by the fact this is how it needs to be emulated. In other words, the narration is consistent with a genuine first-person experience, and as such is likewise consistent with the initial date.

Finally, much of the critiques I'm coming across are argumentative rather than empirical. For example, a later period is argued because its contents are ideal for that period (referring the Maccabean age). But readers from every age have found it ideal for their time—even early Christians saw it as referencing their own struggle. Other objections seem inconclusive, such as the unknown or hypothesized identity of Darius the Mede. The best argument that I've found so far, has to do with the absence of any mention of Daniel by Ben Sira, a Jewish Scribe, which mentions around 28 other OT figures. But even here the significance of the absence and possible motives are debated by scholars, and anything drawn from it has to be assumptive. In conclusion, most of the critical arguments are either inconclusive, or not inconsistent with the original date. So far, nothing empirical and decisive appears to exist that ought to lower the probability of the original date.
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Messages In This Thread
The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 17, 2022 at 2:05 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 17, 2022 at 2:19 pm
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 21, 2022 at 11:42 am
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 21, 2022 at 7:19 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2022 at 11:51 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 22, 2022 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Story - by zebo-the-fat - August 21, 2022 at 12:07 pm
RE: The Story - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 21, 2022 at 12:46 pm
RE: The Story - by Anomalocaris - August 21, 2022 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Story - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 21, 2022 at 1:36 pm
RE: The Story - by Anomalocaris - August 21, 2022 at 1:17 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 21, 2022 at 1:24 pm
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 22, 2022 at 10:17 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 22, 2022 at 11:38 am
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 22, 2022 at 11:52 am
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 22, 2022 at 11:53 am
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 23, 2022 at 2:45 pm
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 25, 2022 at 9:15 am
RE: The Story - by Belacqua - August 25, 2022 at 9:22 am
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 25, 2022 at 9:24 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 9:36 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 25, 2022 at 10:02 am
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 10:11 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 23, 2022 at 3:35 pm
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 23, 2022 at 10:26 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 12:34 pm
RE: The Story - by HappySkeptic - August 24, 2022 at 12:38 pm
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 24, 2022 at 4:53 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 5:13 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 7:56 pm
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 9:46 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 10:46 am
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 12:44 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 1:18 pm
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 5:35 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 26, 2022 at 6:29 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 26, 2022 at 11:29 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 26, 2022 at 11:34 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 24, 2022 at 7:18 am
RE: The Story - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 22, 2022 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 22, 2022 at 1:59 pm
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 24, 2022 at 7:23 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 22, 2022 at 4:46 pm
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 23, 2022 at 10:01 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 23, 2022 at 10:21 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 24, 2022 at 1:31 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 10:47 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 23, 2022 at 11:08 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 11:47 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 23, 2022 at 1:12 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 1:58 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 23, 2022 at 2:19 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 4:49 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 23, 2022 at 11:16 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 5:09 am
RE: The Story - by Silver - August 23, 2022 at 11:29 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 12:05 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 24, 2022 at 1:33 pm
RE: The Story - by Belacqua - August 24, 2022 at 1:04 am
RE: The Story - by Belacqua - August 24, 2022 at 8:22 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 11:11 am
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 24, 2022 at 11:18 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 11:19 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 12:42 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 1:34 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 2:06 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 2:48 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 2:54 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 2:14 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 10:18 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 10:50 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 11:38 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 11:47 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 25, 2022 at 12:42 pm
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 26, 2022 at 3:24 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 2:05 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 2:24 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 2:39 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 4:22 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 25, 2022 at 3:08 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 3:12 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 25, 2022 at 3:40 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 4:52 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 5:23 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 6:01 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 5:57 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 6:43 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 6:51 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 6:58 pm
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 26, 2022 at 9:14 am
RE: The Story - by Anomalocaris - August 27, 2022 at 2:21 pm
RE: The Story - by Fake Messiah - November 20, 2022 at 8:51 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2022 at 9:19 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 26, 2022 at 10:14 am
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 26, 2022 at 11:52 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 26, 2022 at 10:34 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2022 at 10:40 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2022 at 11:41 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 2:41 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 3:01 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 3:51 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 4:43 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 5:11 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2022 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2022 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 5:54 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 6:29 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2022 at 5:58 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 6:47 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 7:00 pm
RE: The Story - by Paleophyte - November 21, 2022 at 12:39 am

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