The Death Penalty - are you for or against it and why?

[Shell B]

You, Epi and others have not provided any real answer to the question of sentencing the wrong people to death.

Yes, I have. I have repeatedly said that I do not agree with the death sentence in this legal system. Because I say I would agree with the death penalty in a legal system that eliminated the chance of executing innocent people does not mean I have to come up with an answer to the question of how to create such a system, though I have made suggestions . . . already. I simply do not 100% disagree with the death penalty.

You (referring to your side) have routinely brought up special cases, ranging from inmate escapes (really? make the prison better -- escape means the security is shitty.) to the "serial killer problem" (in which you specifically target serial killers under the pretense of them "not being rare").

A. it's not a pretense B. I bring up serial killers because they are one of the only exceptions, if not THE only exception, to my objection to the death penalty. I'm not saying "There are serial killers, so we have to kill all the murderers." as you are implying. Therefore, the "special cases" I bring up are entirely relevant to MY position on the topic.

This would communicate this to me:
1) You have no answer to our concerns, so thus "damn any innocent man who does manage to slip through" (of which we do know happens, and happens more than we'd like) [innocence project].
2) You'd rather get your dead man, whatever category, class, crime, etc,.
3) "Who" deserves death doesn't matter -- you'll cleverly increase or decrease the qualifiers for whom deserves state-sponsored death with rationalizations and emotional appeals, not objective measures (which brings it's own flamefest of trouble, I'm afraid).

Perhaps it communicates that because you haven't been reading what I have been saying on the topic. I'm pretty sure even Rhythm, who has been my longest running "opponent" on the topic could tell you that I have conveyed none of the above positions.

So no, whether you "want" to avoid executing innocent people or not, it doesn't fucking matter.

Uh, yeah it fucking does.

You're arguing for a system that fundamentally is structured with "no take backs" in mind. And to add salt to the wound, you're arguing for a system chaired by men in one of the most religious nations on this planet.

No, I am fucking not! Please, someone show me where I said we should have the death penalty in the United States right now. I'm begging you, because I keep being accused of these nonsense beliefs that I haven't even so much as hinted at.

Frankly, knowing the batshit in the air, I'm surprised that you wouldn't be back pedaling on this (if not for logic, for the consequences such advice, given the society you live in).

Why the hell would I backpedal, because you apparently misinterpreted everything I said or attributed things that Epi said to me, much like Rev did?

Shell, if these "men" under jurisdiction and watch of the state escape, it means this:
The prison is flawed and some process was shoddy enough to allow for that escape.

They don't only escape from prison, which has been my main point. The budget is not there to staff the prisons further. The laws that allow them to be going from here to there and wind up escaping are kept in place to maintain their rights both before and after conviction. You can't have "treat them like humans" and "put them in a steel box with no holes," buddy. Even still, NONE of my objections to the "make the prisons better" argument would make me say the death penalty is viable in this country right now.

And if you argue the "threat angle", why don't you bloody come out with it and just admit you want them on the firing line upon their first escape attempt?

I didn't say that, nor would I say that. I'm not some militant hatemonger, so you can stop that angle. I'm not going to be goaded into freaking out and saying something I don't mean so you can be satisfied that you told someone off for something that they don't believe. I mean that in the friendliest way.

Because that's what you're going to get to if you insist on blaming ridiculous failure of the prison (which, last I checked, exists solely to hold these people for a set period of time).

Blaming the ridiculous failure of the prison on what? I think that was an incomplete thought or I am reading it wrong.

It is more likely your "serial killer" will get clemency from a Governor Huckabee than escape by their own hand.

Yes, your point? I'm not arguing we have a perfect system. I'm not arguing we put ANYONE to death right now. I'm not arguing anything except that the death penalty is a viable sentence in a perfect scenario. That's it. Anything else you attribute to me is fodder for your own righteous indignation.