(December 6, 2022 at 3:22 pm)Belacqua Wrote:(December 6, 2022 at 10:00 am)Objectivist Wrote: If existence is primary, then it is eternal. Existence is primary. The question "where did it all come from" is a nonsensical question that trades in stolen concepts. The universe is existence seen as a whole and represents all beings, their attributes, their actions, their relationships, etc., so saying that the universe came into being is like saying the universe came into itself.
Just out of curiosity, do you think that existence preceded the Big Bang? How does that work? I know there are various theories...
Yes, there are various theories.
1. The Big Bang is the start of space, time, matter, and energy.
In this case, there was no 'preceded the Big Bang': the phrase is strictly meaningless. And, since causality only makes sense once time started, there is no meaning to the phrase 'cause of the universe'.
2. The Big Bang is a phase transition between an earlier contracting phase and the current expansion phase.
In this case, time is probably infinite into the past. But so are space, matter, and energy. Again, the phrase 'cause of the universe' is literally meaningless.
3. The Big Bang is a local phenomenon in an overall expansion.
Again, in this case, time is likely to be infinite into the past along with space, matter, and energy.
In ALL cases, matter and energy are co-eval with time and space.
Quote:Do you hold that the universe is somehow eternal, with no beginning? If existence preceded the Big Bang, and existence is something, then there was something before.
The term 'eternal' is ambiguous in its meaning. It can mean 'for all time' or it can imply an infinite expanse of time. In the first case, time could be finite into the past.
It is possible the universe has a beginning. But, in that case, time also has a beginning and the universe is 'eternal' in the first sense of existing throughout time.
So, it is possible the universe existed before the Big Bang. That is not yet known, but is a possibility. But, if it was the case, then matter and energy also existed prior to the BB.
Quote:I know you don't believe in any supernatural stuff, so we don't have to go through that. But I'm curious if you see a point at which all the stuff started (Big Bang-like).
I've watched a few Roger Penrose videos on YouTube but they are way over my head.
The jury is out on this. Under several quantum theories of gravity, it is possible for time to be infinite into the past along with matter, space, and energy. If, instead, General Relativity is correct in this, time started at the Big Bang and there was literally no 'before'.
So, if your definition of 'beginning' includes having a time prior to that existence, I do not believe the universe had a beginning, even if it only goes finitely far into the past.
