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Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis
#59
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis
(February 11, 2023 at 4:30 am)GrandizerII Wrote: Yeah, I suppose, broadly speaking, there are two senses of the term "pride" that I often see being used.

The first sense is, as what is described in your C. S. Lewis quote, something that is akin to narcissism. That kind of pride is indeed very competitive, seeing others as threats to one's success. In this sense, pride is excessively selfish, unempathetic, disregarding of the wellbeing of others, having an often unwarranted sense of superiority to others (in terms of indicators of power and high status) and an intense focus on how to maintain that sense of superiority (even if at the expense of others).

The second sense of pride is far more joyful and hopeful. In this sense, when one feels pride at one's accomplishments (for example), it is more of a feeling of joy and relief than a feeling of superiority. It is inclusive rather than exclusive, readily and willingly acknowledging the support of others and showing gratitude towards them. It's a circumstantial feeling one feels when specific events occur that invoke such pride, not a strongly ingrained personality trait/disposition.

So yes, you're correct to suggest we first ask what C.S. Lewis himself meant by the word "pride". And in this case, I actually agree with him that pride (as he describes it) is very bad.


I wonder if there's been a kind of drift in the meaning of the word "pride." Like maybe it used to be more clearly about hubris, and now it's closer to "self-esteem." 

(I mean, in Henry James novels, "make love" means "flirt." But now it means "fuck," so that's a pretty big change in less than 100 years. You have to stop and think when you read in a novel that "the young couple was seen making love on the sofa at the party." So words can change.)

The first translations of Dante into English were made in the mid-1700s. In those translations, and in every one that I'm aware of since then, the first sin that needs purging in Purgatory has been called "pride." Though the translators could conceivably have used "hubris" or just kept the Latin "superbia." 

Japanese translations use 高慢. The first character means "high," and the second covers a lot of ground -- from "chronic" to "conceited" or even "lazy." (Boasting is "自慢" -- "self" + "conceit.") The dictionary entry for 高慢 gives "haughty; arrogant; proud; stuck-up." So it's clearly the bad kind of pride. 

America is famous for being an individualistic sort of place, where Ayn Rand, for example, could find a home. I wonder if this tendency has contributed to the word "pride" getting a more positive meaning over time.
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Messages In This Thread
Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 24, 2022 at 6:21 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Jehanne - September 24, 2022 at 6:32 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Ahriman - September 24, 2022 at 6:35 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Jehanne - September 24, 2022 at 6:39 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 24, 2022 at 6:40 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Jehanne - September 24, 2022 at 6:53 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Ahriman - September 24, 2022 at 6:51 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 24, 2022 at 7:08 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Foxaèr - September 24, 2022 at 7:10 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 24, 2022 at 7:10 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - September 24, 2022 at 7:17 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by AFTT47 - September 26, 2022 at 12:20 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - September 26, 2022 at 1:15 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - September 25, 2022 at 3:23 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Angrboda - September 26, 2022 at 10:05 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Foxaèr - September 24, 2022 at 7:19 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 25, 2022 at 4:41 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - September 25, 2022 at 5:58 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 25, 2022 at 9:05 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - September 25, 2022 at 3:00 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Gwaithmir - September 25, 2022 at 8:42 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 25, 2022 at 9:30 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Jehanne - September 25, 2022 at 9:59 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Foxaèr - September 25, 2022 at 9:49 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Gwaithmir - September 27, 2022 at 7:19 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 25, 2022 at 10:30 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Duty - September 25, 2022 at 11:01 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Jehanne - September 25, 2022 at 12:34 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Ranjr - September 25, 2022 at 2:20 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - September 25, 2022 at 8:15 pm
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - February 11, 2023 at 12:52 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Belacqua - February 11, 2023 at 5:23 am
RE: Pride - the worst sin according to C.S.Lewis - by Foxaèr - February 18, 2023 at 9:19 pm

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