RE: British Non-Catholic Historian on Historical Longevity of the Roman Catholic Church.
July 14, 2023 at 7:51 am
(This post was last modified: July 14, 2023 at 8:01 am by Nishant Xavier.
Edit Reason: Edited to add link
)
Well, as for Judaism, Christianity came from Judaism, and retains the Jewish Scriptures going back to Abraham, who lived around 2000 B.C., and Adam, who might have lived 10-20,000 years ago according to some, and 100,000-200,000 years ago according to others, in its Bible Canon.
In the OT, obviously written before Christ's Birth, there are many Prophecies that the Messiah would come. We believe this Messiah is Jesus Christ, and that's why we retain the OT, and the Prophecies contained in it, like Isa 53, which teaches Christ's Passion 700 years before He came, i.e. in 700 B.C, Psa 110:1 by King David who lived in 1000 B.C., which Christ quoted to the Pharisees as proof of the Messiah's Divinity etc. So, basically - and not going into that in detail here - but, the point is there is historical continuity even before the Incarnation of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.
And, regarding Christ's coming, the point is it started with 12 poor disciples who had no human chance to succeed. All those disciples died as Martyrs. They themselves never harmed any other innocent soul, and shed no blood but their own, just like Jesus Christ Himself, as every true Christian should strive to live by. There are hardly any other parallels to a Religion starting with a few Poor Disciples all of whom became Martyrs, and yet all of whom also rose to a level of Missionary Success far above far more learned Jewish Rabbis or Pagan Philosophers. Not only Christianity, but other religions were missionary too; they tried to teach what they believed was the Truth. But Christianity was the actual Truth, and it was confirmed by both Philosophical Arguments and Multiple Miracles on Multiple Continents - the only reason Christianity could have grown and spread so far and so widely as it did, which is already evident by the end of the 1st Century A.D. Christianity was established in Africa, in India, in Europe etc.
To an argument made earlier: to be clear, Christianity, at least Catholic Christianity does not teach, live however you want, but as long as you believe in Jesus, you're going to Heaven, or anything like that. No, you should believe in Christ and be Baptized/receive the Sacraments, of course, but you should also strive to live a holy life, which has two parts (1) striving to avoid all sin, esp. mortal to begin with, to avoid Hell; then venial also, if you want to avoid Purgatory (2) secondly, to do good works, which also contribute in time, to receiving the Grace of Perseverance in Christ.
Not going to answer every other objection right now, but will do as time permits subsequently. Now, twice in what he wrote, Thomas Macaulay, mentions St. Augustine of Canterbury, Kent and England etc, let me quote those parts again: "The Catholic Church is still sending forth to the farthest ends of the world missionaries as zealous as those who landed in Kent with Augustin, and still confronting hostile kings with the same spirit with which she confronted Attila." The Attila thing was in the time of Pope St. Leo the Great, that's another interesting story, but we'll pass over that for now. And the 2nd is: "She was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot on Britain". So let's look at the story of how Christianity came to Britain, through St. Augustine of Canterbury, and Pope St. Gregory the Great. This same Pope St. Gregory the Great btw is also known for promoting Religious Freedom or Religious Liberty.
And that's the point here, let me quote St. Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the Church in England. Putting it in hide boxes, those who want can expand it: So St. Bede hands down the principle, which St. Augustine of Canterbury also taught: "he had learned from those who had instructed him and guided him to salvation, that the service of Christ ought to be voluntary, not by compulsion". This is the True Tradition of the Church Fathers and Early Christianity. One or two Church Fathers were of a different opinion, and thus some abuses happened; yes, we agree. But what is conveniently ignored in such re-tellings of history is that many Jews and many Pagans also persecuted Christians, e.g. between 30 and 70 A.D. Christians were persecuted in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Then, for nearly 300 years, Christians were persecuted in pagan Rome. Then, God converted Emperor Constantine the Great, and Rome became Christian. Then, Christianity spread in England, Ireland etc, not by the sword, as is falsely claimed, but rather by Preaching and Miracles, by Philosophy and Arguments, as the life history of St. Patrick, the Apostle of Ireland, or the life history of St. Augustine of Canterbury, the Apostle of England will show. All these are basic facts of European and world history.
If anyone denies these things happened, then how on Earth did Christianity come to Britain, to France, to Germany, to Ireland, etc in the first place, which everyone knows did happen? Go back in history and read, the answer is: through St. Augustine of Canterbury, St. Remigius, St. Boniface, St. Patrick respectively, most of whom were sent by Popes, like St. Augustine of C by Pope St. Gregory, and were Bishops/Priests themselves. They prayed, they fasted, they lived blameless lives beyond all reproach, they did charity and good works, and Christianity triumphed.
The link: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/38326/38...html#toc59
In the OT, obviously written before Christ's Birth, there are many Prophecies that the Messiah would come. We believe this Messiah is Jesus Christ, and that's why we retain the OT, and the Prophecies contained in it, like Isa 53, which teaches Christ's Passion 700 years before He came, i.e. in 700 B.C, Psa 110:1 by King David who lived in 1000 B.C., which Christ quoted to the Pharisees as proof of the Messiah's Divinity etc. So, basically - and not going into that in detail here - but, the point is there is historical continuity even before the Incarnation of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.
And, regarding Christ's coming, the point is it started with 12 poor disciples who had no human chance to succeed. All those disciples died as Martyrs. They themselves never harmed any other innocent soul, and shed no blood but their own, just like Jesus Christ Himself, as every true Christian should strive to live by. There are hardly any other parallels to a Religion starting with a few Poor Disciples all of whom became Martyrs, and yet all of whom also rose to a level of Missionary Success far above far more learned Jewish Rabbis or Pagan Philosophers. Not only Christianity, but other religions were missionary too; they tried to teach what they believed was the Truth. But Christianity was the actual Truth, and it was confirmed by both Philosophical Arguments and Multiple Miracles on Multiple Continents - the only reason Christianity could have grown and spread so far and so widely as it did, which is already evident by the end of the 1st Century A.D. Christianity was established in Africa, in India, in Europe etc.
To an argument made earlier: to be clear, Christianity, at least Catholic Christianity does not teach, live however you want, but as long as you believe in Jesus, you're going to Heaven, or anything like that. No, you should believe in Christ and be Baptized/receive the Sacraments, of course, but you should also strive to live a holy life, which has two parts (1) striving to avoid all sin, esp. mortal to begin with, to avoid Hell; then venial also, if you want to avoid Purgatory (2) secondly, to do good works, which also contribute in time, to receiving the Grace of Perseverance in Christ.
Not going to answer every other objection right now, but will do as time permits subsequently. Now, twice in what he wrote, Thomas Macaulay, mentions St. Augustine of Canterbury, Kent and England etc, let me quote those parts again: "The Catholic Church is still sending forth to the farthest ends of the world missionaries as zealous as those who landed in Kent with Augustin, and still confronting hostile kings with the same spirit with which she confronted Attila." The Attila thing was in the time of Pope St. Leo the Great, that's another interesting story, but we'll pass over that for now. And the 2nd is: "She was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot on Britain". So let's look at the story of how Christianity came to Britain, through St. Augustine of Canterbury, and Pope St. Gregory the Great. This same Pope St. Gregory the Great btw is also known for promoting Religious Freedom or Religious Liberty.
And that's the point here, let me quote St. Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the Church in England. Putting it in hide boxes, those who want can expand it: So St. Bede hands down the principle, which St. Augustine of Canterbury also taught: "he had learned from those who had instructed him and guided him to salvation, that the service of Christ ought to be voluntary, not by compulsion". This is the True Tradition of the Church Fathers and Early Christianity. One or two Church Fathers were of a different opinion, and thus some abuses happened; yes, we agree. But what is conveniently ignored in such re-tellings of history is that many Jews and many Pagans also persecuted Christians, e.g. between 30 and 70 A.D. Christians were persecuted in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Then, for nearly 300 years, Christians were persecuted in pagan Rome. Then, God converted Emperor Constantine the Great, and Rome became Christian. Then, Christianity spread in England, Ireland etc, not by the sword, as is falsely claimed, but rather by Preaching and Miracles, by Philosophy and Arguments, as the life history of St. Patrick, the Apostle of Ireland, or the life history of St. Augustine of Canterbury, the Apostle of England will show. All these are basic facts of European and world history.
If anyone denies these things happened, then how on Earth did Christianity come to Britain, to France, to Germany, to Ireland, etc in the first place, which everyone knows did happen? Go back in history and read, the answer is: through St. Augustine of Canterbury, St. Remigius, St. Boniface, St. Patrick respectively, most of whom were sent by Popes, like St. Augustine of C by Pope St. Gregory, and were Bishops/Priests themselves. They prayed, they fasted, they lived blameless lives beyond all reproach, they did charity and good works, and Christianity triumphed.
Quote:[/quote]
The link: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/38326/38...html#toc59
