(September 20, 2023 at 6:47 am)Belacqua Wrote:(September 20, 2023 at 4:59 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: My lack of being convinced God exists doesn't stand alone. It comes packaged with various inter-related opinions.
My atheism comes as a bundle with:
Agnosticism
Skepticism
Anti-religious sentiment
Nihilism
Materialism/Physicalism
Evolution
A high view of science (scientism?)
Left/ Liberal/ Progressive Politics
Not believing in moral realism
Not believing in freewill
Etc.
Does your atheism tie into other things, or does it stand alone?
Every atheist everywhere gets their atheism as part of a package. It's impossible not to.
We aren't capable of looking out at the world in some kind of rootless, "view from nowhere" kind of way and then concluding that it doesn't look like there's a God. From the day we're born we're absorbing the values and social framework of the time and place we're in. More than ever before, this framework is compatible with atheism, so atheism seems like a rational conclusion to many of us.
I think I'd reverse the order of causation, though: we don't settle on liberal bourgeois values because we are atheists. Rather, it becomes possible for us to be atheists because our culture is absolutely soaked through with liberal bourgeois values.
Of course both "liberal" and "bourgeois" are big terms with lots of internal variation. They don't necessarily lead to atheism. (Although I think that many of the problems with modern American Christianity come from the incompatibility of these values with old-fashioned Christianity, which makes it very difficult for modern people to espouse a consistent, historically-rooted religion.)
The best book on this is A Secular Age by Charles Taylor.
People who think their beliefs concerning God aren't part of a package, and that they have somehow independently come up with true conclusions, simply haven't examined their own ways of thinking very well. What we hold to be true about the world is entirely contingent on our time and place, and all the packages that come with that.
(Pointless response to someone who has me on ignore)
Of course atheism is part of a package, but what that package consists of varies widely from one atheist to another.
And 'liberal bourgeois values' is a nonsensical term. Historically, the bourgeoisie have been ultra conservative and concerned primarily with amassing and retaining wealth and keeping their economic dominance secure. Liberal values (in the modern sense) largely arise from the proletariat being fed up with bourgeoisie high-handedness.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax