Good Morning, Grand Nudger,
I just realized a possible reason you have that handle. Nudging is pushing. And you are someone who does a great job of pushing other people’s buttons. “Grand Nudger” is very suitable and well-deserved.
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I know my tone has changed. I’m sorry about that. I’m getting frustrated. I came for good discussions, and they seem to happen, then don’t. If I start getting full on snarky, then I’ll probably step away for a while.
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I am contending that it is our Christian history that gives us our values. You’re point is that if we have the Christian virtues, then we don’t need God to exist anymore, assuming that he ever did. And I would say yes. Yes we do (edit) need to think that God exists.
Consider, in the last 100 to 200 years, and the last 60 in particular, we have moved from a Christian society to a post-christian society.
Those values have still been with us but, as I see it, are going away, getting replaced by greater selfishness, antagonism, etc. The world is not getting better without that Christian worldview.
If God didn’t exist, then even though, somehow, the Christian worldview lasted that long anyway, it will soon die out. Without the Christian worldview, what is there to get us back on track? And not only without that worldview, but replaced by many, many worldviews, almost to the point where everyone has their own unique worldview. It seems to me that it will be impossible to keep those virtues. Who will define what is inhumane, when everyone has a different idea of what humane is? How will we have compassion for victims when everyone is a victim? How can we have community and brotherhood, when our culture fights for radical individualism? I don’t know.
For today, no, it may not matter whether God exists as long as the people around you have that worldview. But tomorrow they may not, and then it matters.
I just realized a possible reason you have that handle. Nudging is pushing. And you are someone who does a great job of pushing other people’s buttons. “Grand Nudger” is very suitable and well-deserved.
(December 2, 2023 at 10:07 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: People pointing out that a foundational assumption you make and that is required for your position is demonstrably and self-evidently false doesn't seem to be "dancing around" anything.The position does not require that statement, what you call “a foundational assumption.” I would ask you to go back and read the post again, but I doubt you would. Here is the post without that comment so that you and Boru can more easily respond to the argument.
Would you like to talk about that?
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I know my tone has changed. I’m sorry about that. I’m getting frustrated. I came for good discussions, and they seem to happen, then don’t. If I start getting full on snarky, then I’ll probably step away for a while.
---------------------------------------
I am contending that it is our Christian history that gives us our values. You’re point is that if we have the Christian virtues, then we don’t need God to exist anymore, assuming that he ever did. And I would say yes. Yes we do (edit) need to think that God exists.
Consider, in the last 100 to 200 years, and the last 60 in particular, we have moved from a Christian society to a post-christian society.
Those values have still been with us but, as I see it, are going away, getting replaced by greater selfishness, antagonism, etc. The world is not getting better without that Christian worldview.
If God didn’t exist, then even though, somehow, the Christian worldview lasted that long anyway, it will soon die out. Without the Christian worldview, what is there to get us back on track? And not only without that worldview, but replaced by many, many worldviews, almost to the point where everyone has their own unique worldview. It seems to me that it will be impossible to keep those virtues. Who will define what is inhumane, when everyone has a different idea of what humane is? How will we have compassion for victims when everyone is a victim? How can we have community and brotherhood, when our culture fights for radical individualism? I don’t know.
For today, no, it may not matter whether God exists as long as the people around you have that worldview. But tomorrow they may not, and then it matters.