Dear Atheists: what would convince you God/Christ is Real?

[The Grand Nudger]

Good Morning, All,

Happy weekend!

It doesn't make any difference no matter how we concieve of it.  If, for example, we propose that god is not a thing..then every thing still popped into existence from...not a thing.

I’d like to respond to this. Mostly for the digital archeologists who will find this in the far, far future. (like in five years :-)

I would agree that we (theists and philosophers who think about this stuff) say that every thing pops into existence from not a thing. I have no problem with that. I am not saying stuff pops into existence from nothing, though.

If we call “thing” as something from this universe, e.g. quantum foam, rocks, lizards, gravitational fields, then no, God is not a thing. God is spirit. We can think of our own spirit since we know it best. Spirit is that in us by which we know and love. Our body knows nothing. It loves nothing. Bodily pleasures are not even enjoyed by the body. It does react physically to them, but it is the knowing mind that enjoys the reactions or doesn’t.

So, yes. All things in the universe popped into existence from an eternal spirit. They have to come from somewhere. The universe can’t come from itself. Further, this source from outside the universe has to be eternal, that is has no beginning (or end). As before, if it has a beginning, then what created it?

That does not mean the eternal spirit is the Christian God. I am not making that leap here.

-and there we have it.  It's not that nothing pops into existence from no thing.  In fact, according to you..or to your version of theism, all things popped into existence from no thing.  Regardless of whether or not your silly god exists, we can say with authority that the argument for god from things popping into existence is disingenuous... at best.  

That's why this argument fails.  Not on any item of disputable fact - it's worse, the form of the argument (natch) is faulty.  You could plug in nothing but absolute facts and it still wouldn't be informative....but that's christianity for you.  

I concur. Without the concept of spirit, the argument falls apart.

With or without "the concept of spirit" the argument falls apart - as we can repeat the very same questions for "spirit" that we have for gods or things or popping into existence - which you just acknowledged to be defeaters.

Which is not, in point of fact, anything to do with the god of classical theology.  

I’m missing something. Why does this (the argument?) not have anything to do with the god of classical theology? What am I missing in what you’re saying?

I guess I'll have to be the bearer of bad news.  Christians killed all the folks who believed in the god of classical theology™.  Hunted them down, declared their thoughts crime, and killed them.  No christian, anywhere, ever, has ever been talking about the god of classical theology.  They're all talking about christ - their god. In classical theology, christians silly god is a mid-level employee of the real god. There's something perversely delicious in contemporary abrahamists continued attempts to appropriate the pagan philosophies they eagerly and thoroughly stamped out. If any of you really believed that the classical philosphers were on to something..you'd be fucking atheists. That's how it ended for them.