Russia and Ukraine

[Thumpalumpacus]

You never engage in dogfighting unless you absolutely have to, anyway.

Which is why it's so laughable that the mafia got so much media attention for so long.

They were instrumental in driving the USAF to reinstitute solid training in ACM, and also pushed strongly for the F-16, though they wanted its EW suite reduced. But you need to remember that at that time, "guided" missiles had failure rates of upwards of fifty per cent, and no USAF fighter has an onboard cannon -- they had to strap cannon-pods to the belly or wings of the planes, increasing drag and making the plane even less maneuverable.

Some of what they espoused was crap. Some was good.