(January 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)chipan Wrote: the bible actually makes a few scientific claims that aren't wrong.Even under the dubious claim that this is true (it isn't), the inaccuracies far outnumber whatever claims you recommend and the language used is so broad that they can be interpreted in any way you see fit.
Show me a part of the bible that explains 10-dimensional plasma physics (that is a real thing by the way - it would just be plasma physics using string theory) or something as opposed to a passge that might allow you to interpret a way that maybe leans one way or the other.
But hey, you provided actual passages and some reading material.
I have other work yet to do today now that my bills are paid, but I'll try to do as much as I can here before I move on to that.
(January 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)chipan Wrote: Job 26:7- speaks of in the northern heavens there is a vast space in which the most powerful telescopes have been unable to locate any celestial bodies. in every other direction stars can be found but not there. it also says he hangs the earth upon nothing, which is it speaking of the fact that the earth is floating in space not supported by anything (as it doesn't need to be supported). Ptolemy, Aristotle, and Plato all thought that the earth was a flat disc of land surrounded by a great world river.Whooo-boy.
Where do I begin?
Job 26:7 Wrote:26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.Just looking at that individual passage, it well, sounds out of place. It certainly doesn't sound like it's describing the Earth in the Vacuum of space.
That wouldn't even be technically accurate. The Earth and Moon and bound to one another. The Earth is bound to the sun by the sun's gravity. The sun is bound to the Milky Way Galaxy's billion+ mass black hole at the core, the milky way galaxy itself is bound by the gravitational influence of the local supercluster.
So I suppose I'll be generous and say you can interpret that any way you want but that's only looking at that one quote.
Reading the entire chapter - here is my interpretation of events -
Job is talking to "Bildad the Shuhite" and describing how the great can help the weak and powerless.
Hell is naked before him. "He" stretched over the north and hung the earth upon nothing. He bound water into clouds and did not rent the cloudsn before him. He holds back the face of his throne and spreads a cloud upon it. The waters are compassed with bounds until the day and night come to an end. The pillars of the heavens tremble. The sea is divided with 'his' power. Being garnished above the heavens, his hand hath formed a crooked serpent.
The thunder of his power who can understand?
This doesn't sound like an astonishing revelation of astronomy from bblical scripture. It sounds like what has happened is the full scope of god's view, power, and the world is brought to bear to the understanding of the reader and the characters involved - a description of the scope of everything of Job to one of his accusers.
This descriptoin entirely conforms with this:
See and understand for yourself.
(January 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)chipan Wrote: Luke 17:24-36- Jesus speaks of his second coming. He points out that for some His return would be during the day and for others it would be at night. this establishes that the earth is round and there is day on one side of the earth and night on the other.Either that or the bible is just inconsistent with itself - or the flat earth above still has a night and day cycle.
(Genesis would confirm this as god seporated night from the day.
There's nothing really there to describe what you're saying or to even suggest a spherical earth. If anything, it just suggests that Jesus' return won't be subtle. As a special note, Jesus doesn't seem to have much of a problem with god's genocide of the world during Noah's time.
Still though identifying and understanding that the world has both night and day doesn't alone point to that they understand that the earth is spherical (or more accurately elipsoidal.)
(January 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)chipan Wrote: Proverbs 8:27- states that God “set a compass (or circle) upon the face of the depth.” Isaiah teaches, “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth. (back then there was no word for sphere for the hebrew)Heaven and sky are also the same word in hebrew. Keep that in mind whenever the bible mentions that Jesus or god ascend or open the gates to heaven.
I should also point out that there are plenty of ways to describe that the earth is as we understand it in modern times. The statement is completely consistent with a flat earth. That could just as easily describe an actual circle but it becomes more likely if you put it into the context of every passage about the earth in the bible.
(January 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)chipan Wrote: Isaiah 40:22- not only states that the earth's round, but has a part where God "streaches out the heavens." this refers to the fact that the universe is expanding.Speaking of a stretch...
Isaiah 40:22 Wrote:It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:God views the people of the earth from the sky from his throne and the sky stretches out like a curtain like a tent for humanity to dwell within.
Yeah, that sounds like the earth is a sphere and the universe is expanding all right. I'm still having difficulty finding the chapter that describes the red shift of distant galaxies.
(January 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)chipan Wrote: Psalms 8:8- the paths of the sea- This passage led Matthew Fontaine Maury to discover the safest paths of ocean travel. We now know that there are great rivers such as the Gulf Stream and the Labrador Current which pursue their “paths” across the ocean.
Pslams 8 Wrote:Psalm 8
8:1 O LORD, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
8:7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8:8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
8:9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Here's the entire Pslams 8 chapter. 8:8 is highlighted red.
It sounds more like a tirade about how glorious god is supposed to be than anything, but in this chapter, it mentions the 'paths of the sea'.
Is that it? You could interpret that any way you wait - rivers, trading rounds, sea-based passages, rivers - basically any line connecting two points through the ocean or other such route.j
That's not evidence of knowledge of any specific features of the earth or earth's oceans.
(January 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)chipan Wrote: this evidence was found on this site and there is much more evidence here
http://teacherscommentary.net/salvation/whythebible.pdf
So...
The bible is true because
1) it's popular?
--Appeal to Popularity Fallacy
2) Morality - the Bible is a fine moral guide for humans!
--HAH! We went over just two moral arguements in the bible and it did not fare well at all. Those were two of the most egregrious examples but they are far from the only ones.
3) Unity -- The bible has 1500 authors and they consistently weave a story about ultimate redemption with the messiah.
--The bible is none of those things. THere is an uncountable number of divisions within what has been coined the "Christian" faith based on this book because of its inconsistencies both general and with its own message. Further, like a completely unnecessary sequel, the New Testiment is a revision of the old testiment (like a movie sequel that retroactively changes cannon events or history of a story). The Jewish people don't even accept Jesus as the Messiah. There are few if any unifying aspects of this book.
4) The Person of Jesus Christ -- No "student of history" can deny the influence of Jesus upon the world.
-- I'm going to ignore the easy point of discussing whether Christianity's influence on the world as positive or negative just to say this:
- There is no evidence for the existence of Jesus.
- More importantly, Jesus' divinity is not agreed upon by all faiths. It's not even agreed upon that he's the messiah.
5) Impartiality -- The bible is not partial to anyone
-- Utter bullshit. The bible go a long way to tell you who god favors in and out of the bible and who god does not.
Also - women and slaves are completely glossed over outside of a few passages that tell you not to murder or maim some of them unless they get uppidy or shame the men in their life. That's just the tip of the iceburg.
6) Everything else
-- I got tired of looking at this paper. There's no evidence of anything - it's self masterbating claptrap that doesn't even seem to understand the book it is talking about.
It's ignorant, its' vile, and it's so far from honesty of any kind, that the Kepler telescope couldnt' find it even if it knew where to look.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan