RE: Human Nature
May 2, 2025 at 8:27 am
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2025 at 8:31 am by Ivan Denisovich.)
(May 2, 2025 at 8:02 am)Alan V Wrote:(May 2, 2025 at 7:22 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: I would love political rise of demagogue in US cause that would mean someone giving a shit about common man but I'm not in habit of loving fantasy. Sanders ain't president.
Also democracy have itself to blame - if it couldn't provide citizens with European style healthcare (would be called single payer here?), lessening wealth inequality, or educating citizens on why voting for fascist is both immoral and counter effective then perhaps some shock is needed so political class could reassess it's priorities.
According to Google, a demagogue is "a political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument." That describes Trump certainly, but not Sanders who does indeed rely on rational arguments and facts IMO. (One can argue for different policies on the basis of the same facts, but Trump doesn't rely on facts.)
I was ready to offer another more positive take on this but there isn't much that would be really bad here. I see politicians as someone who provides vision and if necessary plays on emotions to achieve success. Certainly I have trouble with recalling politicians actually using rational arguments and not merely mumbo-jumbo only them and their spin doctors think rational. ETA: To give you an example - "we must lower taxes so wealthy will invest more" is not something I consider rational argument but merely ideological rote script with at absolute best tenuous basis in reality.
All politicians are demagogues (per your definition) in my view as convincing someone by rational arguments is more a domain of academia (and even then not always or perhaps even not often). Also I would describe trump as fascist.
Lastly as an aside I prefer outdated meaning of the word demagogue: When the ancient Greeks used dēmagōgós (from dêmos, meaning “people,” and -agōgos, “leading”) they meant someone good—a leader who used outstanding oratorical skills to further the interests of the common people. It's a label that actually mean something.
Quote:In the U.S., lower taxes are given priority over universal healthcare, even by a large number of voters. I don't agree with that either. Our highest priorities should be the basics.
Does anybody seriously pushing for it? Quick google search tells me that Harris dropped the subject during presidential race and voters in the end can only vote on what is on the offer.
Quote:In the case of democracy versus fascism, be careful what you wish for. In our case, it seems to be leading to a plutocracy -- just the reverse of what Trump's fake populism promised.
I don't wish for fascism but it's pretty clear to me that fascism is result of failures of both democracy and capitalism. It does not appear because people are dumb or vicious.
The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.
Mikhail Bakunin.
Mikhail Bakunin.