(February 15, 2012 at 12:18 pm)Chuck Wrote: The safety net is called fraud. Those who need such a safety net should have their needs removed. I understand the removal can be effectively and securely accomplished by rendering the needers dead. Which is not much a net loss since such safety nets have historically proven to be extremely lethal themselves.
A belief in a possible spiritual essence to reality is not fraud.
On the contrary, for all anyone knows it may very well be the ultimate truth of reality.
Also, spirituality in general has not historically proven to be extremely lethal. The only ones that have been lethal are the ones that claim that there exist specific personified Gods, and/or demons. And also claim to have scriptures that represent the thoughts, directives, and commandments of those deities.
I can certainly understand everyone's over-reaction to such evil visions of gods at war with demons. In many ways I can't blame people for over-reacting to this. The Christians go around condemning everyone in the name of Jesus as "The Christ". The Muslims go around demanding that God is a male-chauvinistic pig, etc. Even the Witch-burnings were driven by a superstitious belief in a specific demonic Satan who is supposedly at war with the Christian God.
But all those are based on doctrines that make very specific claims about what these gods and demons are like, etc.
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I think the real bottom line is that humans in general (at least in terms of the masses) simply aren't capable of comprehending a truly benevolent concept of spirit. It takes truly wise people like Deepak Chopra to comprehend and teach such things as pure intellectual wisdom.
In truth, a lot of religious people could potentially become highly criminal if they were actually convinced that there is no spiritual essence to reality at all. After all, if the truth of the matter is that we're just a bunch of overly evolved apes in an otherwise cold-dead universe, why should it matter if we knock off our unruly ape neighbors?
Killing mere accidents of a cold unfeeling dead universe could hardly be considered 'immoral'. In fact, what would morality even mean in the context of an 'immoral' universe?
If pure secular atheism is true, and everything we believe to know about physics is also true, then it's futile to imagine that someday we (as a species) might actually leave this speck of dust we live on. Our fate is apparently sealed. We're just stuck in this solar system until our star has a hiccup and then we're toast. And that's all there was to that.
So why should morality even be a consideration, even for the human species as a whole?
If are just random products of a cold-empty explosion that has no innate property of morality. Kill anyone you feel like killing. Why not? The universe does it all the time. Evidently it's no big deal. It's just the nature of the beast.
This is the line of reasoning a religious person can easy conclude. If there is no spiritual essence to reality, then it's nothing but a freaking accident. So the very concept of morality is a meaningless concept.
Why would you want to kill people's dreams who imagine that there is something greater going on?
I wouldn't try to convince people that there cannot possibly be anything mystical or magical going on behind the scenes. That would be stupid. Especially when I know that this cannot be ruled out entirely.
But I do feel that need to dump these hateful jealous-God religions for sure. These hateful jealous-God religions are detrimental to humanity.
So why not focus on the REAL PROBLEM, and quit pretending that we can prove that there cannot be a spiritual essence to reality, when that very claim right there is a fraudulent claim?
It's an outright lie to claim that anyone can prove that there cannot be a spiritual essence to reality. To claim that such a thing could be proven is fraud right there.
So if you want to avoid fraud don't support those kinds of false claims.
Just deal with the jealous-god religions directly and forget about trying to claim that mystical visions of a potential spiritual essence to reality has been disproved. That's a false claim anyway. Why spread lies just to address the problem of jealous-god religions?
Stick to what we can actually know. And don't over-react to the real problem. Overreacting to the problem is totally unnecessary.
Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig.
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
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Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!