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Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
#1
Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
There is many reasons to me that Deism doesn't make sense as opposed to a religion. I think when religion can be summarized to be what a person submits to and follows for guidance. It's quite simple to me.

In Deism, you can do the following:

Follow yourself totally
Follow yourself partially, and partially follow others, in which in reality you are following yourself (you chose what to follow from others).
Follow a person totally


Now in Deism, you don't believe you are totally guided. And you don't believe others are totally guided by God because you have no proof of them being guided by God. 

It can be said while somethings you or others know will be correct and enlightening, this way is destined to mix falsehood with truth, for certain. You don't know the initial steps you must follow to reach the next steps, and so on, until you are following the light of God as ought it to be followed.

While in theory, we can supposedly connect to God and the light, in Deism, in practicality, it will be purely individual while the masses will be left without guidance.

On the other hand, the Quran says "God guides to the truth, is who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, then who doesn't guide to it unless they are guided" and other verses it states "And of who who we created are a people who guide to the truth".

Naturally, those who guide by the truth will be guiding the light of God. God is to be followed through them.

While guidance of God doesn't mean people will follow it, not giving guidance, certainly, makes it increasingly probable that not many will follow it.

Another thing is that as blame to whatever degree is what it is, only if has the characteristic of having been avoidable, it shows rationally it's possible to avoid any blameworthiness. 

The path of praise then if God would create infinite souls, would be inevitable, followed, without fault.

It's inevitable exalted souls exist that are more worthy to be followed then others.

It seems obvious to me, that God wants us to follow those more worthy of leadership and guidance, as opposed to those who for all we know,  are leading us and misguiding us by their whims.

Their seems to be a path that is praised in ourselves to follow, but we don't know exactly this path or if we do, we tent to forget and neglect parts of it.  Those who walked the path and reached the destination and God trusts would not deviate from the path, we would not know who they are, unless, God somehow proved their position which would make they worthy to be followed.

Aside from this, it seems that advice from God and admonishment from him would have a different effect then all others. And that God can speak to humanity in ways that addresses all of them and brings them collectively together in ways we humans cannot.

God can impress all their intellects, appeal to all of them, in ways, we don't understand how and why, and by what. He can also manifest divine glories and beauties in chapters and words, that would, manifest his personality, to all humans, and unite them on the light of his words and verify the truth by his words, in ways we cannot.

He can guide them all and express eloquence beyond that of humans only to be appreciated to the best and peak of our intellects yet still falling short, recognizing over time, that such a book has no limit to the degree it rises the intellect when appreciating it's subtle wonders.

Such a book could be the catalyst, even if neglected and not giving due right in the beginning, to uniting humanity on rope from him and manifesting leaders they ought to follow and unite upon.

It can manifest eloquently and inspire in ways, we cannot, inspire others.  

That said, such a book, to me being capable in God's power, surely would exist. There also being no way to bestow power and authority in reality that is based on truth other then through this, this would be another proof, since an authority and power to be followed by humans is better then anarchy, then, this would be the best way to unite humanity upon God's authority through giving authority to who he pleases through the divine books.

That he would unite humanity on a cause related to him, on affair related to him, through such chosen people, even though their rights and God's right linked to them, can be neglected for a long time.

That this would be the way to know who sincerely wants to help his cause and not help his cause, by having loyalty of an authority figure linked to him.

Aside from this, it seems, we have divine treasures in our souls, that we kind of neglect. A spiritual program from God in a way to exercise and hone this skills and powers, is important.

That our seeing power of our souls etc, will be developed through means of this program. 

All this I see nothing wisdom manifesting greatness, and I see it's opposite, something not befitting a majestic being.

That ultimately, it would, not leave us to ourselves, as we neglect his right, and neglect God and the light, it would remind us, call us back to the path, and try to unite us on the best of his creation and give us the most wonderful majestic honorable speech that can be said.

I was a Deist for about five years, and I've experienced in myself a void missing when we don't have a connection to God through his own words, are left to figure out everything for ourselves without guidance from his best friends, and have no rope or handhold of God to cling to.

We have all sorts of spiritual illnesses in humanity and we are in need of healing from God and his chosen ones.
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#2
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
You think that deism doesn't make sense because it doesn't satisfy the criteria of your preferred brand of theism...but I'm not sure what that has to do with -either- making sense or why you though that deism was -supposed- to do what your theism is supposed to do in the first place?  You may be ill, but it's uncharitable to assume that others share your sickness.

"I prefer theism to deism because deism is bad at theism-ing". No shit, but what, exactly.....did you expect?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#3
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
[Image: Ybl3O8q.png]
I am John Cena's hip-hop album.
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#4
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
It makes absolutely no sense to follow a book such as the Quran or the Bible simply because they make claims that they're the word of god.  It's pure bullshit.  If you believe in the god of Abraham, then obviously it makes more sense to follow Theism rather than Deism.  But deists for the most part don't believe in the tiny dick God of Abraham.  

Maybe it makes no sense to believe in a god at all.  But if you're going to believe in one, why assume anybody understands the idea of god?  If they did, then surely there'd only be one religion.  Especially if such a god were omnipotent.

There's no such thing as miracles.  It's just all a bunch of woo.  Personally I believe there might be some sort of god.  But I'm pretty sure it's none of the assholes people have come up with.  If one religion is made up, there's no reason to believe they're not all made up.  Why would I follow the guidance of some dickhead who claims to have revelation from god?  It's better to discover your own guidance than follow someone else's.
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#5
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
(February 28, 2016 at 5:17 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: We have all sorts of spiritual illnesses in humanity and we are in need of healing from God and his chosen ones.

Has it occurred to you that this is an atheist forum? Read
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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#6
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
(February 28, 2016 at 5:34 pm)Divinity Wrote:  It's better to discover your own guidance than follow someone else's.

Is it really? Or are we just increasing our chances of deluding ourselves that we are guided and upon the path, while, we are not upon the path we are meant to walk upon. That we aren't connecting and seeing what God's close friends see.

With revelation, we can help one another through reminding each other through the obvious and clear things it commands. We can also work together and come together to understand it's deeper subtle wisdom. 

Are we who are not guided unless God guides us more worthy to be followed, then even God's guidance? Is God included in this "someone else's" guidance?

I agree a book claiming to be from God is not a sufficient proof for it to be from God.

And I don't know about you, but I'm sick of a world being lead by a anarchy of powers vying with one another, while some people are neglected and others are heightened.

Isn't it time for humanity to see they need God to manifest the leader they ought to follow and unite upon and that he ought to rule the earth with justice and equity?
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#7
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
(February 28, 2016 at 5:17 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: There is many reasons to me that Deism doesn't make sense as opposed to a religion. I think when religion can be summarized to be what a person submits to and follows for guidance. It's quite simple to me.

In Deism, you can do the following:

Follow yourself totally
Follow yourself partially, and partially follow others, in which in reality you are following yourself (you chose what to follow from others).
Follow a person totally


Now in Deism, you don't believe you are totally guided. And you don't believe others are totally guided by God because you have no proof of them being guided by God. 

It can be said while somethings you or others know will be correct and enlightening, this way is destined to mix falsehood with truth, for certain. You don't know the initial steps you must follow to reach the next steps, and so on, until you are following the light of God as ought it to be followed.

While in theory, we can supposedly connect to God and the light, in Deism, in practicality, it will be purely individual while the masses will be left without guidance.

MK, don't you see that what you posted has everything to do with what you WANT to believe? Reality doesn't care. Reality couldn't care less if anyone is guided or not. Reality just is. Religion is a comfortable crutch for those who feel they need guidance but it's a fabrication.

I'm not unsympathetic to you or to others like you. I see you as a genuine seeker, one who truly want's to understand. But I believe you're pursuing made-up crap to try to fill the void. Most of us here are comfortable with the void. We know there is more than what we understand (and maybe more than we are capable of understanding) but we are comfortable admitting that. We're not comfortable of making up fairy tales to fill the void because we intellectually KNOW that that's bullshit.

We are far more intelligent than the other animals but we are still very limited. It won't always be that way. We will use technology to radically increase our own capability but even then, it is highly questionable whether we will be able to tackle questions like God. The most honest answer we will ever have is, "i don't know." But we already have what we need to disprove nonsense like Christianity and Islam and Judaism. Those religions make claims which are out of step with known fact, logic and even common sense. Trying to find your answers there is like trying to find them in a Looney Toons cartoon. Not to say that there isn't anything of value to be found there but what you find has to be dispassionately judged by reality.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Albert Einstein
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#8
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
(February 28, 2016 at 5:49 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: And I don't know about you, but I'm sick of a world being lead by a anarchy of powers vying with one another, while some people are neglected and others are heightened.

Isn't it time for humanity to see they need God to manifest the leader they ought to follow and unite upon and that he ought to rule the earth with justice and equity?
If you're sick of it, stop being their complacent little lackey, insisting that we bow to their vying power over another under the guise of "god" or "guidance".

You think it's time for us to return to some king, I think we walked away from that entire -idea- of kingship....regardless of who is said to be king, and won't be returning to it.

If you want those things, equality and justice, do the work. Stop looking to heaven, waiting for them to fall on your head.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#9
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
Quote:Naturally, those who guide by the truth will be guiding the light of God. God is to be followed through them.

Only sheep need a shepherd.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#10
RE: Deism vs Religion (Non-guidance vs guidance).
You can want the guidance of a God. But religion is not a guidance of a god. Religion makes men into gods. The real fucking problem with this is that it makes men who lived a long time ago into Gods. You're just following their words, not the words of any god.

I think that if there is a god--that this God would not want to appoint any such leaders for precisely the reason we see today. People make claims of being appointed by God. They use "God" to do many terrible things. If a God wanted to appoint someone, he or she would make it clear to everyone. Wanting for guidance and then choosing the guidance that makes most sense to you is not the guidance of a god. It's the guidance that you're most comfortable with.

Religion doesn't bring you closer to God. It only makes you think you're closer to god.
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