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Whats even attractive about Christianity anyway that people want to stay in ignorance
RE: Whats even attractive about Christianity anyway that people want to stay in ignorance
(March 5, 2012 at 9:51 pm)Voltair Wrote: Again the problem with throwing off reasoning and taking that leap of faith is any religion could say that.
2 Peter 2:1-3
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Every sport could claim it's football, but that's to be expected because of the money and fame football has. People create religions which pretend to be true and copy Christian principles. Their scriptures change. Much of Muhammad's sayings were written down 400 years after the fact. It has changed to become more acceptable to the people. I can't give you one foolproof evidence, but investigate the Bible and try to find errors in it. Even references to accurate science are made before the actual discoveries (http://www.pb.org/pbdocs/bibleac.html). In contrast, the Quran makes claims of a geocentric universe (21:33). If you eliminated evolution, tell me which religion's creation theory you would go with. Many don't have one, and the ones that do are usually obscure human-dreamt ideas like the earth on the back of a turtle. The most logical are Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Christianity is the fulfilling of Judaism. Islam is a false addition (and alteration of some OT stories) by one man with no witnesses. I think it's no coincidence that the Christian forum is the most heavily posted on this site. People believe it has the most stock, and consequently attack it harder.
Quote:Christianity is not technically work based although if you don't do good things your faith is dead so in a sense it is work based.
If you have faith you will do good things in response to God's gift. You can tell if someone has faith by their works, but that doesn't mean the works come first. Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Quote:Christian missionaries also do what they do for partially selfish reasons.
True, but that's not what the Bible calls for, or what Jesus calls for. You can tell a lot about a religion by its founder. Muhammad warred conflicting tribes. Jesus preached love and selflessness. We can't grade a religion based on its followers. As to a Christian who does nothing, they can reach heaven too. The thief next to Jesus on the cross gave his life to Christ just before he died.

About eastern religions wikipedia says, "Hinduism has no conversion/reconversion rituals whatsoever—one is free to choose any religion he/she wants, follow any philosophy or belief one fancies and worship any god in a manner he/she deems fit. Religion for a Hindu is merely a path to a universal destination." I believe Buddhism is similar. Buddha mentions spreading his ideas, but their religion doesn't have a particular salvation to achieve. Mental or spiritual enlightenment is all eastern religions offer. Buddhism is technically atheist, so it also lacks answers to many of the big questions, such as where we came from.

Quote:Also many Christians do what they do to avoid punishment.
Isn't that sad? Jesus preaches love, love, love, and people remain invested in their selfish desires. Do you have a son or daughter? If you do, you'll know that the best way to get them to do the right thing is to develop a loving relationship in which they will do what you advise simply out of love and trust. If you develop a fear system they'll find ways around it and sneer at your authority behind your back.
Quote:It would be like me falling in love with a girl and telling her that she didn't have to be with me while holding a gun to her head.
God's not holding the gun, we are. We sin. God has to stay true to his nature, which is to keep justice. But luckily for us he is also loving, so he sends his son to take our criminal sentence for us. Either we accept it or we don't. We have free will, and it seems many people don't have a problem choosing death.

Quote:Sacrifice means you actually have to lose something and Jesus knew that he was going to be fine.
Think about what he did. It's like us sculpting a world of clay men designed to get along perfectly and love each other and have each other's backs. But it wouldn't be love if they were forced to do it, so they have free will. They start sculpting knives of their own and murdering each other and telling lies and stealing. You're saddened, so you put yourself into the frail bodies of one of these and live in the mayhem they created for 30 long years. You resist temptations they produced. Then you let them kill you. On top of all this, you bear the guilt of every one of them on the cross. Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" indicating that the burden of sin was so heavy God couldn't even look upon it. It's hard to imagine the agony of an intangible thing, but it must have been great.

Quote:The martyrdom of the apostles seems to based on writings of people that lived way after the supposed death of the apostles anyway.
A list of some early martyrs: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/missions/miss7.htm
It's well known that Nero targeted Christians, and so did all the Roman emperors up to Constantine. They were supposedly threats to his rule.

Quote:The youth of our days are no longer satisfied with "because I say so and because it just is that way".
Christianity is growing overall in the world, particularly in eastern nations like China and Muslim-ruled countries. It's a myth that a new burst of reason made a hit on Christianity; it's just shifting. Many people point to the fall of Christianity in the US as synonymous with its fall as a world power, and see a correlation between the new morality in China and its growth. An interesting fact about China is the Christian movement began grass-roots after missionaries were outlawed.

Quote:"It was the golden fleece that taught me to do so"
Equating God to an object with definite qualities is a poor analogy. Christians don't define God as a directly-observable, finite or unthinking creature. The definition of God is being apart from time and space. Bringing him into time and space is a way of dwarfing him to a size you can understand, yes, but it is a poor argumentative tactic and a provable logical fallacy.

A video about Sai Baba's deceptions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yblhsr1O4IQ Take a look at the links below too.
Jesus, on the other hand, does not use cheap tricks. He showed he was the lord of time by turning water into wine, and lord of space by healing the official's son from a distance. He also appeared to 500+ people after being brutally killed on the cross. Large numbers of converts came only after the resurrection--the whole Christian faith is based on it. All the believers thought Jesus resurrected, and even secular historians largely agree he lived and died on the cross. They also agree that the tomb is empty. How do you fake a resurrection? The Romans were expert executioners--if they failed, their own lives were terminated.

You'd like me to propose new evidence. Let's start with science. Rick Larson used a professional astronomy program to determine the stars' formation at the time of Jesus' birth. It included one star (Jupiter) coming into conjunction with several others, touching the Leo and Virgin constellations, and creating what was probably the brightest star in the history of human civilization. What's more, it would have appeared to be in the west at Jesus' birth (to Magi from Persia) and then appeared to be slightly south from Herod's palace where the Magi stopped first. There was also a blood moon (lunar eclipse) on the afternoon Jesus died, visible from Israel (Joel 2:31 and Acts 2:20).
http://www.bethlehemstar.net/dance/dance.htm
http://www.bethlehemstar.net/day/day.htm
Since star patterns are predictable, it's easy to go back in time and see what the sky looked like when. No rebuttals have been attempted.

Creation is also grounds for the Christian God. Do you believe in Evolution? If so, on what evidence?
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Whats even attractive about Christianity anyway that people want to stay in ignorance - by Undeceived - March 6, 2012 at 4:33 am

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