(March 12, 2012 at 8:09 pm)padraic Wrote: Argument from antiquity;being believed for a long time does not make a thing true.Agreed, but my key term was "apparent". Before secular science devised evolution as its proof for atheism while using atheism as its premise, people had no reason to believe there wasn't a God. They came to the conclusion on their own--albeit many different types--and no one questioned it because it seemed self-evident. If nearly every culture produced a God that suggests there is something inherent in our human minds that shouts "God!" The argument is not from antiquity, it's the reason for antiquity. It's the root beneath the plant. Why are people so predicated on God to the extent that even atheists create a "god agent" in the Big Bang?
Quote:Argument from consensus;that a large number of people believe a thing does not mean it is true.
Consensus alone is not a proof, agreed. My point is, when you hear a consensus, do you dismiss it until 100% proof by way of physical evidence is given? If 2/3 of the world say they know of the aurora borealis because of other peoples' accounts, would you demand they prove it with photographs? Would you say they were wrong until proven right or neutral until proven right? Now, if people's accounts are all that's possible (say cameras don't work in cold weather) wouldn't you then lean towards it being true? Jesus had no photographers in his day, yet people recorded his life and resurrection, and converts in the area spread like wildfire. In the case of the aurora borealis, at the very least you'd say "I don't know" rather than smugly claiming "I know this phenomenon is not real." In the case of Jesus, you could only say "I don't know" on the basis of not wanting to know, because there certainly is enough evidence to know. Great events don't require great evidence to have happened, just for the most stubborn of us to believe. In some ways I have more respect for agnostics, because they admit they don't know rather than claiming they know beyond-a-doubt that Jesus never resurrected. But they suffer from a similar breach of logic when they say "I can't know." How do they know they can't know? They don't, they just assert it. They declare that the spiritual cannot cross over into the physical, but Christians say God is big enough to do just that. He sent is son Jesus into the flesh to live a blameless life and die for sins he never committed. And he elected four writers to record it so that we may have just enough evidence to believe without grudgingly being forced into it.