Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 24, 2025, 9:24 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Deism for non-believers
#27
RE: Deism for non-believers



The question I have about a deist god is how that god avoids inevitably sliding into the god of Apatheism — he exists, but he is completely irrelevant to our existence. And any properties of this Deist god that you assign to "rescue" it from irrelevancy in the end becomes a property by which that* god can be falsified, or at least persuasively undermined by the traditional avenues of theodicy, justice, Euthyphro's dilemma, inconsistent attributes and so on. Any deist god worth caring about ends up being one of the ones we can't believe.

I just finished reading a fascinating book by Pascal Boyer called "Religion Explained," and a number of fascinating consistencies in supernatural / religious beliefs emerge. Nobody cares about a god who only exists on Wednesdays, or who is aware of everything, but has no power to do anything about it. People's supernatural agents are organized around various dimensions, one of which he calls relevancy — the supernatural agent is capable of acting in ways which matter to us, from the threat of eternal hellfire to the belief that malevolent witches caused your roof to collapse. Being a religious being means mattering. Otherwise, what's the point. In Buddhism, there are plenty of gods, but nobody cares, because they aren't relevant. How do you make your Deist god relevant without at the same time sowing the seeds of its destruction?

(I've got the Shermer book, but alas I rarely read aside from book club and group assignments these days. But I'll keep it in mind — I actually hauled it out recently with the aim of getting a taste of it, to encourage pursuing it; at present, it's now underneath a book on epistemology, a fiction book, computational neuroscience, an intro to Buddhism and Stenger's "God: The Failed Hypothesis". I keep meaning to read some personal selections; I just never have the time. [In the past two weeks, in an unusually heavy load, I read 4 books in preparation for discussion groups, only one of which coincided with a book I had on my personal reading list — and that exception was unusual; I rarely have interest in these books prior to having them assigned])


[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 9:20 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - June 9, 2012 at 9:58 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 10:11 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 9, 2012 at 10:12 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 10:24 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 9, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Ace Otana - June 10, 2012 at 6:47 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 7:42 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Ace Otana - June 10, 2012 at 8:00 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Tempus - June 10, 2012 at 8:52 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 10, 2012 at 8:30 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Adjusted Sanity - June 9, 2012 at 10:25 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 10:28 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Adjusted Sanity - June 9, 2012 at 10:32 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Norfolk And Chance - June 10, 2012 at 6:49 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Adjusted Sanity - June 10, 2012 at 10:18 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 9, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 10:44 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 9, 2012 at 10:48 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2012 at 10:55 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 11:40 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 9, 2012 at 10:59 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2012 at 11:08 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 9, 2012 at 11:18 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Faith No More - June 9, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2012 at 11:53 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 10, 2012 at 12:01 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by cratehorus - June 10, 2012 at 12:05 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 12:12 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 10, 2012 at 12:37 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 12:30 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 1:19 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 10, 2012 at 3:07 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 4:37 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 10, 2012 at 5:07 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 10, 2012 at 5:30 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 5:35 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 10, 2012 at 5:04 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 10, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 6:30 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 10, 2012 at 10:02 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 10, 2012 at 6:34 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 9:14 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 10:11 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 10, 2012 at 10:44 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Ace Otana - June 10, 2012 at 11:11 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 10, 2012 at 11:22 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 10:14 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 10:24 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 10:34 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 11:03 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 11:17 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 10, 2012 at 5:33 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 6:47 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 10, 2012 at 7:00 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 7:09 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 10, 2012 at 7:16 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 7:22 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 10, 2012 at 7:32 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 7:34 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 10:35 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 11, 2012 at 8:06 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 12, 2012 at 3:12 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Colanth - June 15, 2012 at 6:13 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 10:51 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 10, 2012 at 11:32 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2012 at 11:43 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 11, 2012 at 12:11 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 11, 2012 at 12:59 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 12, 2012 at 12:13 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 12, 2012 at 4:48 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 11, 2012 at 4:22 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 11, 2012 at 7:27 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 11, 2012 at 9:01 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Brian37 - June 11, 2012 at 9:06 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 11, 2012 at 9:43 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 12, 2012 at 12:52 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 12, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Skepsis - June 12, 2012 at 9:39 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Mister Agenda - June 12, 2012 at 3:04 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 13, 2012 at 12:17 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 13, 2012 at 12:38 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 15, 2012 at 9:42 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 17, 2012 at 11:00 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 17, 2012 at 8:57 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 17, 2012 at 9:26 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 18, 2012 at 6:00 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 18, 2012 at 2:20 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 19, 2012 at 2:23 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 19, 2012 at 4:15 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 19, 2012 at 11:08 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 19, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - June 19, 2012 at 12:15 pm
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2012 at 11:06 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by FallentoReason - June 23, 2012 at 6:44 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Faith No More - June 22, 2012 at 11:17 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by Angrboda - June 24, 2012 at 12:17 am
RE: Deism for non-believers - by The Grand Nudger - June 29, 2012 at 12:22 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Can you be a "Non religious muslim"? Woah0 31 4653 August 22, 2022 at 8:22 pm
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Persistent Non-Symbolic Experiences Ahriman 0 707 August 18, 2021 at 4:05 pm
Last Post: Ahriman
  Questions about the European renaissance and religion to non believers Quill01 6 1130 January 31, 2021 at 7:16 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  God as a non-creator Fake Messiah 13 2639 January 21, 2020 at 8:36 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  Being can come from non-being Alex K 55 10878 January 15, 2020 at 10:40 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  Being cannot come from Non-being Otangelo 147 23456 January 7, 2020 at 7:08 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
Information How to discuss religion with believers? Scientia 161 27085 February 20, 2019 at 1:54 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Why do some believers claim that all religions are just as good? Der/die AtheistIn 22 5199 June 25, 2018 at 12:10 pm
Last Post: Succubus
  This Will Cause Believers To Lose Their Shit Minimalist 36 10994 March 30, 2018 at 11:14 am
Last Post: sdelsolray
  Why are believers still afraid of death? Der/die AtheistIn 49 7313 March 8, 2018 at 4:57 pm
Last Post: WinterHold



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)