(June 10, 2012 at 10:35 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: I can't see the material as 'icing on the cake' because it is through the material that we've defined 'intervention'. Early on in this thread some of us have agreed that a plausible god wouldn't intervene in the world today. That implies that intervention is the mucking-around of material things. Therefore, when nothing exists it's impossible to intervene because there's nothing to intervene with. After creation intervention is possibleOops. Creation is also intervention, so creation when there's nothing is impossible. Your logic, not mine. (And it's not creation if anything already exists.)
Of course, "creation" doesn't need a creator - that's just one more gap that no god lives in. And it's the crucial one - if no creator is needed, no god is either, of any kind. That's the last gap and it's welded shut. No more god-o-the-gaps. Now we have to await objective evidence that a god objectively exists. And the universe has only a few (okay, a whole lot) billion years left, so I don't think anyone will ever see any.
