Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: January 5, 2025, 4:21 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Where's the Justice?
#57
RE: Where's the Justice?
(July 9, 2012 at 1:11 pm)cato123 Wrote:
(July 8, 2012 at 3:07 pm)Undeceived Wrote: If you read on through verse 44, you would find Jesus talking about the spirit of the law, as opposed to the letter of the law. The spirit of the law is summed up in Matthew 22:37-40 (as well as Mark 12:30 and Luke 10:27):

The spirit of the law has never changed. In Matthew 5:17 Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." In Acts 15, the Christians were realizing that circumcision was part of the letter of the law used by God as a means of showing allegiance. They found that the real lesson to follow was a "circumcision of the heart". The Mosaic laws weren't just a set of hoops to jump through. They were meant to point humans to a higher good.

You are helping to prove my point. The rest of Mark 5 has Jesus talking about specific laws and giving new meaning. At no time does Jesus indicate that the laws that will last until the end of the earth are not to be obeyed. In fact in 27 and 28 he now tries to make adultery a thought crime as well.

The loving god first and neighbors as yourself bit was in reply to the question 'which are the greatest of commandments' and in no way indicated that the rest are to be disobeyed.

The Mosaic Law, or "letter of the law" does not need to be followed. This includes traditions such as Sabbath keeping and sacrifices at the temple. It seems the law you mean is the Ten Commandments. Yes, adultery has always been wrong and will continue to be wrong until the end of time. Moral codes don't change or they wouldn't be codes. What is 'good' and what is 'bad' was inherently declared before human existence. In Acts 15, the disciples are discovering they no longer have to follow Jewish customs. But they should follow the ten commandments, or the condensed two (love God and love neighbor) which automatically cover the ten. The two came first. The ten are more specific guidelines, given to the Israelites so they might understand and so we would have a two-part Bible today to fully show Christians the Law, and fully show Christians the Grace to overcome that Law. By your own concession, the only 'change' Jesus made was in adding thought to the crime. Well, this is nothing new. If you consider a crime in your head, your mind is not on God. Deuteronomy 6:5 says to "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." It's the thought that counts. God doesn't want us simply to obey. Our obedience should be out of love. Action without the mind is meaningless! We are like children to Father God, or the wife to Husband Christ. If we only paid lip service and refrained from doing anything nasty, what kind of relationship would it be? Jesus explains the positive response the Israelites were too blind to see: love in place of hate. Do good because we want to do good. There's not just "thou shalt not"s but "thou shall"s. God wants our mind and soul, not our bodies.

Obviously we cannot follow this law. We do our best, out of love. Christ shows love for us first, by paying our debt--being righteous where we could not. Taking the punishment of death for us. No law is required for salvation, though full observance of the law (impossible) would still obtain salvation. Both are still in existence. If the law were not, we would have no need of Christ's sacrifice. The OT shows the presence of the law that never leaves. The NT shows God's planned response. We are unable to follow the law, but Jesus will follow it for us.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 7, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Godschild - July 7, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by znk666 - July 7, 2012 at 8:32 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 7, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 8, 2012 at 12:30 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Undeceived - July 8, 2012 at 3:07 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 9, 2012 at 1:11 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 9, 2012 at 2:05 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 9, 2012 at 10:45 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 9, 2012 at 10:56 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 9, 2012 at 11:47 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 10, 2012 at 1:29 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 10, 2012 at 2:03 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 10, 2012 at 2:13 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 10, 2012 at 2:34 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - July 13, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Undeceived - July 11, 2012 at 1:01 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 11, 2012 at 2:39 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Mister Agenda - July 11, 2012 at 1:28 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by JohnDG - July 11, 2012 at 4:47 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Godschild - July 11, 2012 at 5:23 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Reforged - July 11, 2012 at 5:37 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Godschild - July 11, 2012 at 10:36 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Reforged - July 11, 2012 at 11:05 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 11, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Godschild - July 12, 2012 at 1:00 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by downbeatplumb - July 12, 2012 at 1:05 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 12, 2012 at 4:13 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Mister Agenda - July 12, 2012 at 3:26 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by JohnDG - July 12, 2012 at 2:25 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Godschild - July 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by MysticKnight - July 11, 2012 at 10:55 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Minimalist - July 7, 2012 at 2:40 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by The Grand Nudger - July 7, 2012 at 3:18 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Undeceived - July 7, 2012 at 3:43 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by joe terlizzi - July 7, 2012 at 4:18 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by downbeatplumb - July 7, 2012 at 5:52 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 7, 2012 at 9:25 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 7, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Norfolk And Chance - July 7, 2012 at 2:54 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 7, 2012 at 5:19 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Tempus - July 7, 2012 at 10:22 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 8, 2012 at 1:05 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 8, 2012 at 4:52 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by CliveStaples - July 8, 2012 at 5:02 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 8, 2012 at 5:28 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Mister Agenda - July 11, 2012 at 2:50 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 11, 2012 at 3:10 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Mister Agenda - July 11, 2012 at 3:54 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 11, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Mister Agenda - July 12, 2012 at 2:44 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Reforged - July 12, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Minimalist - July 7, 2012 at 11:12 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 8, 2012 at 3:30 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 8, 2012 at 12:13 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by CliveStaples - July 8, 2012 at 4:03 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 8, 2012 at 4:13 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by CliveStaples - July 8, 2012 at 4:18 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 8, 2012 at 4:31 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Norfolk And Chance - July 8, 2012 at 1:59 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 8, 2012 at 7:55 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Minimalist - July 8, 2012 at 2:47 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 8, 2012 at 1:06 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 8, 2012 at 4:44 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 8, 2012 at 11:14 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 9, 2012 at 12:28 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 9, 2012 at 1:07 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 9, 2012 at 12:22 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by FallentoReason - July 10, 2012 at 5:48 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 10, 2012 at 6:41 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Thor - July 11, 2012 at 9:28 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 11, 2012 at 2:51 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Thor - July 11, 2012 at 5:33 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 11, 2012 at 9:46 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Cato - July 11, 2012 at 11:05 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Thor - July 12, 2012 at 5:06 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 12, 2012 at 8:25 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Thor - July 13, 2012 at 11:54 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by jonb - July 13, 2012 at 2:53 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Reforged - July 13, 2012 at 3:05 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Thor - July 17, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Annik - July 9, 2012 at 12:37 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Opsnyder - July 9, 2012 at 2:43 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 9, 2012 at 4:11 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Thor - July 9, 2012 at 4:41 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Godschild - July 9, 2012 at 4:29 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Mister Agenda - July 11, 2012 at 2:56 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Nine - July 9, 2012 at 4:39 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by padraic - July 9, 2012 at 9:58 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by The Grand Nudger - July 9, 2012 at 10:40 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2012 at 1:24 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 11, 2012 at 5:37 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 11, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 11, 2012 at 10:54 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 11, 2012 at 11:06 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Reforged - July 11, 2012 at 11:08 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 11, 2012 at 11:12 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Reforged - July 12, 2012 at 3:21 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 13, 2012 at 5:28 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 13, 2012 at 1:22 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - July 13, 2012 at 9:59 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Polaris - July 13, 2012 at 10:04 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 13, 2012 at 3:17 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 13, 2012 at 4:55 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - July 13, 2012 at 3:05 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Faith No More - July 13, 2012 at 4:08 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 13, 2012 at 4:08 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Faith No More - July 13, 2012 at 4:18 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 14, 2012 at 1:01 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 14, 2012 at 6:31 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 14, 2012 at 9:57 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Welsh cake - July 13, 2012 at 4:58 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Undeceived - July 13, 2012 at 5:46 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - July 13, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Welsh cake - July 13, 2012 at 7:21 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Undeceived - July 14, 2012 at 7:15 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Taqiyya Mockingbird - July 14, 2012 at 10:15 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 14, 2012 at 10:19 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 14, 2012 at 11:12 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Polaris - July 14, 2012 at 11:01 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by frankiej - July 14, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 14, 2012 at 11:38 am
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 14, 2012 at 1:28 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 14, 2012 at 4:31 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 14, 2012 at 6:43 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Gambit - July 14, 2012 at 7:13 pm
RE: Where's the Justice? - by Drich - July 14, 2012 at 8:27 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The illusion of justice, sin and free will dyresand 17 5101 October 15, 2015 at 10:42 pm
Last Post: Pyrrho
  Where's the justice? FallentoReason 77 37559 May 24, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Last Post: Reforged
  Democracy, religion, women and equality. Justice demands affirmative action. Greatest I am 47 25790 February 16, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Last Post: Greatest I am
  Is God’s justice close to an eye for an eye? Greatest I am 14 8403 January 15, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  The justice and mercy of God Freedom 49 31202 December 24, 2011 at 5:47 am
Last Post: Zen Badger
  Satan. Justice delayed is justice denied. Why does God wait? Greatest I am 16 8672 December 21, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Hell - Where is the idea of justice? Voltair 201 79283 November 27, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Last Post: IATIA
  Social Justice? eric209 25 11242 June 11, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Last Post: Violet



Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)