[quote='Ziploc Surprise' pid='313251' dateline='1342827951']
[quote]This statement makes no sense because we are talking about the origins of Christianity.[/quote]You maybe. I have said over and over that my observations were made from a biblical perspective. That Paul provides a seperation from Christianity and judaism. It does not identify the orgins of this resolution. Ie: "The consule of Jerusalem."
[quote] All expressions of Christianity had a common origin (generally speaking)[/quote] Yes Christ. Even in the first century, that is where the common grounds end.
[quote]we are talking about this common origin.[/quote]Again no 'we' are not. For you are trying to introduce non-scriptural 'facts' into the orgins of the Church.
[quote] We are talking about the beginnings not the end. The origins are not the final results. Why you bring up the final results, I don't know, perhaps it is to confuse people.[/quote]The final results? as in the only part of what you have posted, That is apart of the record the bible keeps?
If you or anyone is lost then i welcome the oppertunity to answer your honest questions.
[quote]Now I'll be a bit more specific about Church history. What is usually taught in most modern protestant churches is that god divinely inspired a small group of people to write the Bible. Some magic is involved here because somehow these people manage to write down the very words of god (I won't mention the problems with this because that's an argument for another thread). Anyway, the belief was that it was perfect from the start. Then people began to fuck things up and nasty horrible heretics sprang up to lead people astray so clarification of what the Bible means to say was important. Over time more fuck ups and heretics happened so more clarification of what the pure holy blah, blah, word of god meant was necessary. During this time the Christians were persecuted horribly. I should point out that most churches actually skip the fuck ups and heretics but don't usually ignore the persecution part. Feelings of persecution and the possible threat of it happening again unify people so it's a good brainwashing tactic.[/quote] So? then we are to include all writing on christ simply because the age of a text? what would be the criteria for a canocial book be in your opinion?
[quote] It is also taught that most churches were home churches , this is taught to encourage modern congregations to have things called home groups. [/quote]
because we know the first century had resources like the modern equilvant and they were setting up the modern church to make even more money....
-or-
Most first century churches were indeed held in peoples houses because There Were No Other Places To Hold A Gathering Of Believers!
[quote]Modern churches are quite large. Home groups are a way to make large churches feel less cavernous; more intimate.[/quote]Yes, so people can do what it is I have done for you all. Given you an oppertunity to get answers that you couldn't or wouldn't get on your own.
[quote] Really it's just about money.[/quote] Yes because I am making tons of money from my efforts here...
[quote] The more suckers...I mean people in your congregation, the bigger the money funnel is and the more money the pastor makes. [/quote]-Or- The more the Home groups, the more likly people split off the main church and start their own.
[quote]Also, if the church get's really large the pastor can write books, get them published and make more money. He might also get big enough to get on tv. Then the bucks roll in.[/quote]This is true. many are in it for the money, and little else. On the other hand many more take that money and roll it into the ministry.
[quote]The Devil then tried a new tactic which was to divide god's people hence the huge numbers of denominations that sprung up during and after the reformation and to this present day. [/quote]Then the Devil is a complete idiot. For the Church was 'splintered' from the beginning. Each one of the Books written to a specific Church addressed very different set problems. What do the Apstoles do? Do they establish one set of rules and regulations establishing one unified church like God did for the Jews? (Their only understanding of organized religion) No. they foster and nurture each expression of Christianity, because they know True Christianity is not about one set of rules. Rather Christ established a free form worship. Meaning we have only two commands, and the rest (so long as it did not cause your brother to stumble in their own faith) was up to the indivisual to worship as their gifts and understandings would allow. Now that means because we are al alittle different our perfered worship may all be a little different.
(Read my thread on denominations for a more detailed explaination.)
God even goes so far as to Identify the 12 main or parent forms of Christianity and describes them not only by location but by their leading attributes of worship.
[quote]Then sometime at some starting point in the 20th century we finally started to get it right. We are going back to the original interpretation of the Bible, there will be a revival because of this, All the churches will unite and become just like our denomination (fill in the blank for who "our" denomination would be") Jesus is cuming soon blah blah blah.[/quote]no. "One body many parts." Do you know what this means? Do you know the passage and where this comes from? If yes then you know that "The Church" By defination can not all worship under one 'denominational rule.'
[quote]Note that I don't believe the bullshit above. Note that I've seriously over simplified things. Note that none of this matters because it is all bullshit that will change as it suits Christianity in the future. More importantly also note that I'm aware that what they teach in churches and what really happened are two different things. [/quote]Perhaps you should 'note' that it may have been a while since you been to a church that does not think Christ revolves around them or what they believe. Seriously, if this is your legitmate understanding of christianity then perhaps you should take an honest look at biblical Christianity, because Biblical Christianity is truly nothing like what you have described or seem to understand.
[quote] Also note that I'm aware that the RCC tells a different story. I wrote what I wrote to explain what I meant when, in my original post, I said they don't teach much church history in church. They don't teach much about the origins of Christianity because every denomination, and the RCC, have something to hide.[/quote]
and maybe now you have enough information to understand why i said "not one single expression of Christianity IS Indeed The Chruch. The Church Exists despite the religious efforts of man, not because of it."
In that The church exists only because of the attonement Christ offers, despite our best efforts to form 'religions/expressions of christianity' to worship Him. And not because of it.
[quote]This statement makes no sense because we are talking about the origins of Christianity.[/quote]You maybe. I have said over and over that my observations were made from a biblical perspective. That Paul provides a seperation from Christianity and judaism. It does not identify the orgins of this resolution. Ie: "The consule of Jerusalem."
[quote] All expressions of Christianity had a common origin (generally speaking)[/quote] Yes Christ. Even in the first century, that is where the common grounds end.
[quote]we are talking about this common origin.[/quote]Again no 'we' are not. For you are trying to introduce non-scriptural 'facts' into the orgins of the Church.
[quote] We are talking about the beginnings not the end. The origins are not the final results. Why you bring up the final results, I don't know, perhaps it is to confuse people.[/quote]The final results? as in the only part of what you have posted, That is apart of the record the bible keeps?
If you or anyone is lost then i welcome the oppertunity to answer your honest questions.
[quote]Now I'll be a bit more specific about Church history. What is usually taught in most modern protestant churches is that god divinely inspired a small group of people to write the Bible. Some magic is involved here because somehow these people manage to write down the very words of god (I won't mention the problems with this because that's an argument for another thread). Anyway, the belief was that it was perfect from the start. Then people began to fuck things up and nasty horrible heretics sprang up to lead people astray so clarification of what the Bible means to say was important. Over time more fuck ups and heretics happened so more clarification of what the pure holy blah, blah, word of god meant was necessary. During this time the Christians were persecuted horribly. I should point out that most churches actually skip the fuck ups and heretics but don't usually ignore the persecution part. Feelings of persecution and the possible threat of it happening again unify people so it's a good brainwashing tactic.[/quote] So? then we are to include all writing on christ simply because the age of a text? what would be the criteria for a canocial book be in your opinion?
[quote] It is also taught that most churches were home churches , this is taught to encourage modern congregations to have things called home groups. [/quote]
because we know the first century had resources like the modern equilvant and they were setting up the modern church to make even more money....-or-
Most first century churches were indeed held in peoples houses because There Were No Other Places To Hold A Gathering Of Believers!
[quote]Modern churches are quite large. Home groups are a way to make large churches feel less cavernous; more intimate.[/quote]Yes, so people can do what it is I have done for you all. Given you an oppertunity to get answers that you couldn't or wouldn't get on your own.
[quote] Really it's just about money.[/quote] Yes because I am making tons of money from my efforts here...
[quote] The more suckers...I mean people in your congregation, the bigger the money funnel is and the more money the pastor makes. [/quote]-Or- The more the Home groups, the more likly people split off the main church and start their own.
[quote]Also, if the church get's really large the pastor can write books, get them published and make more money. He might also get big enough to get on tv. Then the bucks roll in.[/quote]This is true. many are in it for the money, and little else. On the other hand many more take that money and roll it into the ministry.
[quote]The Devil then tried a new tactic which was to divide god's people hence the huge numbers of denominations that sprung up during and after the reformation and to this present day. [/quote]Then the Devil is a complete idiot. For the Church was 'splintered' from the beginning. Each one of the Books written to a specific Church addressed very different set problems. What do the Apstoles do? Do they establish one set of rules and regulations establishing one unified church like God did for the Jews? (Their only understanding of organized religion) No. they foster and nurture each expression of Christianity, because they know True Christianity is not about one set of rules. Rather Christ established a free form worship. Meaning we have only two commands, and the rest (so long as it did not cause your brother to stumble in their own faith) was up to the indivisual to worship as their gifts and understandings would allow. Now that means because we are al alittle different our perfered worship may all be a little different.
(Read my thread on denominations for a more detailed explaination.)
God even goes so far as to Identify the 12 main or parent forms of Christianity and describes them not only by location but by their leading attributes of worship.
[quote]Then sometime at some starting point in the 20th century we finally started to get it right. We are going back to the original interpretation of the Bible, there will be a revival because of this, All the churches will unite and become just like our denomination (fill in the blank for who "our" denomination would be") Jesus is cuming soon blah blah blah.[/quote]no. "One body many parts." Do you know what this means? Do you know the passage and where this comes from? If yes then you know that "The Church" By defination can not all worship under one 'denominational rule.'
[quote]Note that I don't believe the bullshit above. Note that I've seriously over simplified things. Note that none of this matters because it is all bullshit that will change as it suits Christianity in the future. More importantly also note that I'm aware that what they teach in churches and what really happened are two different things. [/quote]Perhaps you should 'note' that it may have been a while since you been to a church that does not think Christ revolves around them or what they believe. Seriously, if this is your legitmate understanding of christianity then perhaps you should take an honest look at biblical Christianity, because Biblical Christianity is truly nothing like what you have described or seem to understand.
[quote] Also note that I'm aware that the RCC tells a different story. I wrote what I wrote to explain what I meant when, in my original post, I said they don't teach much church history in church. They don't teach much about the origins of Christianity because every denomination, and the RCC, have something to hide.[/quote]
and maybe now you have enough information to understand why i said "not one single expression of Christianity IS Indeed The Chruch. The Church Exists despite the religious efforts of man, not because of it."
In that The church exists only because of the attonement Christ offers, despite our best efforts to form 'religions/expressions of christianity' to worship Him. And not because of it.
