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The year of whose lord?
#31
RE: The year of whose lord?
(July 22, 2012 at 11:29 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Slut.

Quote:How is it you see a contradiction in Luke 2 with the time line of Herods death?

Herod was dead for 10 years before Quirinius got there.
While looking for the resources to back the general rebuttle for this supposed 'contradiction' i found that someone has done all of the work for me. so lets start here. I subscribe to the 'first explaination' but will leave you with both if you want something else to discuss.

What exactly was it that Caesar Augustus decreed, according to Luke 2:1? The King James Version of the Bible says, "that all the world should be taxed." Most other translations say something like "that all the world should be registered" (NRS) or "that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world" (NIV). The Greek verb is apographo, which literally means to "enroll" or "register" as in an official listing of citizens.2 What was it then, a census or a taxing? Both: It would have been a census taken in part for the purpose of assessing taxes. But only in part. Augustus was very interested in the number of citizens in his empire; he was especially interested in whether that number was growing. This probably was the primary reason for the census (see below).

But what of the census that Luke 2:1 speaks of? Is there any record outside of the Bible that Augustus ever issued such a decree? Yes. As a matter of fact he authorized three censuses during this reign. How do we know this? The three censuses are listed in the Acts of Augustus, a list of what Augustus thought were the 35 greatest achievements of his reign. He was so proud of the censuses that he ranked them eighth on the list. The Acts of Augustus were placed on two bronze plaques outside of Augustus's mausoleum after he died.

The three empire-wide censuses were in 28 B.C., 8 B.C., and 14 A.D. In all probability the one in 8 B.C. is the one the Luke mentions in the Christmas story. Even though scholarship normally dates Christ's birth between 4 and 7 B.C., the 8 B.C. census fits because in all likelihood it would have taken several years for the bureaucracy of the census to reach Palestine.

The only apparent difficulty with identifying the census that Luke mentions in the Christmas story with the one in 8 B.C. is, ironically, something Luke seemingly included to clarify the dating. He tells us in 2:2 that "this was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governing Syria." Seems simple. All we have to do is find out exactly when Quirinius was governing Syria and then we will know exactly when the census was given, right? Right. But the problem is, according to records available to us, Quirinius was governor of Syria in 6-7 A.D. -- eleven years too late!

We know this because ancient historians have quite a bit to say about our man Quirinius. Roman historians Tacitus, Seutonius, and Dio Cassius, as well as Jewish historian Josephus all wrote of him.3 His full name was Publius Sulpicius Quirinius (d. 21 A.D.), who was what the Romans called a "new man." This means that he came to hold his political office on the basis of his own merits rather than by family tradition and inheritance. It was through his military conquests in Cilicia and elsewhere that Quirinius had been exalted by the emperor to the holding of governor in Syria in 6-7 A.D.

Does this mean that Luke is in error? Not at all, especially when he shows himself to be such a careful historian throughout both his Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles, his other historical work. Besides, we believe Luke's Gospel to be inspired by the Holy Spirit!

The key to solving this alleged puzzle, is in the phrase "first census" in the sentence, "This was the first census taken while Quirinius was governing Syria." What does Luke mean by a first census? One theory offered is that the Greek word for "first" (prote) is sometimes translated "prior to" or "before." This is a viable solution because the Greek text of Luke 2:2 can indeed be translated, "This census was before Quirinius was governing Syria."

A second theory holds that by saying "first census" Luke is telling his readers that there was another census that Quirinius oversaw. Was there a second one? Yes, and Luke mentions it in the Acts 5:37! The second census mentioned in Acts would have taken place in 6 A.D. Since it is well known that the Romans often held provincial censuses every fourteen years, it would follow that the "first census," the one at the time of Christ's birth, would have been held in approximately 8 B.C. -- if the fourteen year census cycle was in place at this time. The problem with this second solution is that Luke is specifically saying that the first census (the 8 B.C. one) took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria; and from all available extrabiblical sources, he wasn't. According to E.M. Blaiklock, however, evidence has been found that shows that Quirinius was in Syria for an earlier tour of duty, right around the time that Christ was born. He wasn't there as governor but in some other leadership capacity.4 Therefore, it is possible that Luke is alluding to this in 2:2.

Of the two theories the first has more to commend it, in my opinion. Ultimately, however, Luke was much closer to the historical sources and claims to have "investigated everything carefully" (Luke 1:3) and he did this under the Holy Spirit's inspiration. The bottom line is that the evidence that we have points to 8 B.C. as the date when the "Christmas census" would have been authorized.

http://www.orlutheran.com/html/census.html
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Messages In This Thread
The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 22, 2012 at 7:37 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 22, 2012 at 7:48 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by padraic - July 22, 2012 at 7:55 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 22, 2012 at 7:59 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by jonb - July 22, 2012 at 9:30 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 22, 2012 at 8:14 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by cratehorus - July 22, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Annik - July 22, 2012 at 8:40 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 22, 2012 at 9:26 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 22, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 22, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by jonb - July 22, 2012 at 10:04 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 22, 2012 at 9:51 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 22, 2012 at 10:32 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by C.W. Sims - July 22, 2012 at 10:05 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by KnockEmOuttt - July 22, 2012 at 11:05 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 22, 2012 at 10:09 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by jonb - July 22, 2012 at 11:11 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 22, 2012 at 10:26 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 22, 2012 at 10:32 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by C.W. Sims - July 22, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 22, 2012 at 10:37 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 22, 2012 at 10:50 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 22, 2012 at 11:01 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 22, 2012 at 11:25 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Cinjin - July 22, 2012 at 11:08 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Shell B - July 22, 2012 at 11:18 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 22, 2012 at 11:28 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by jonb - July 22, 2012 at 11:55 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 22, 2012 at 11:26 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 22, 2012 at 11:29 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 22, 2012 at 11:37 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Cinjin - July 23, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Reforged - July 23, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 12:16 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by KnockEmOuttt - July 23, 2012 at 12:28 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 12:55 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by KnockEmOuttt - July 23, 2012 at 2:00 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Cinjin - July 23, 2012 at 12:36 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 1:09 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by jonb - July 23, 2012 at 12:37 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Reforged - July 23, 2012 at 1:04 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 1:17 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Reforged - July 23, 2012 at 1:38 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 9:13 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Cinjin - July 23, 2012 at 9:22 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 9:32 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Cinjin - July 23, 2012 at 9:43 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Creed of Heresy - July 23, 2012 at 12:07 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Norfolk And Chance - July 23, 2012 at 11:49 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by KnockEmOuttt - July 25, 2012 at 2:58 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Cinjin - July 23, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 23, 2012 at 1:10 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Minimalist - July 23, 2012 at 1:30 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Erinome - July 23, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Annik - July 23, 2012 at 1:58 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 9:24 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Cinjin - July 23, 2012 at 9:29 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Annik - July 24, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 24, 2012 at 12:32 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Hovik - July 24, 2012 at 12:44 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by padraic - July 23, 2012 at 3:50 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by KnockEmOuttt - July 23, 2012 at 4:14 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Faith No More - July 23, 2012 at 8:07 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Gooders1002 - July 23, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Shell B - July 23, 2012 at 3:34 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 23, 2012 at 4:47 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Norfolk And Chance - July 23, 2012 at 3:56 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Annik - July 24, 2012 at 12:44 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Jackalope - July 24, 2012 at 12:49 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Drich - July 24, 2012 at 2:39 pm
RE: The year of whose lord? - by Annik - July 25, 2012 at 11:30 am
RE: The year of whose lord? - by The Grand Nudger - July 24, 2012 at 3:08 pm

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