As time goes by

[Kyuuketsuki]

I know you don't highly regard a higher power, but I'm sure you worship something. What is most important to you, what's the best thing?

You can be as sure as you like but you’d be wrong … atheists don’t "worship" a thing, what's important to us is exactly the same as what’s important to you and others … minus the religion.

If people weren't suffering somewhere then no one would have an opportunity to help anyone. And I believe that this life isn't all there is to it, so though it be painful - it's not all there is to it.

So your god created suffering so that other people could feel good about themselves for being nice ... and you worship a fucking bastard like that?

That's not good enough according to Jesus or me, what about all your enemies and strangers?

Why should one love enemies and strangers? An enemy is someone who means you ill ... that's not to say I don't give strangers the benefit of the doubt but if they're out to hurt mine or mine they'd better be ready for some serious pain because I fight dirty!

What does that mean? You live for nothing.

The former is answered above and the latter is just your opinion and inherently worthless.

Life does need the supernatural to make sense - otherwise explain it, if you will. And yes, I am dissatisfied with what I have around me - it's called evil, selfishness, impatience, and on and on.

Retorth is correct ... not only does life NOT require the supernatural to make sense, it is quite evidence that the supernatural (if accepted as an explanation) would utterly screw our ability to explain anything.

Ok, I guess that means as an individual I get to decide what's moral. Based off some story I heard: Is that your stereo over there buddy? I'll be taking that now, whether you want me to or not. See ya later, and don't try to enforce your rules on me as I walk out with the stereo.

That's a stupid example because, even as a moral relativist, we adhere to laws and local custom (no one says we don't), morality is largely determined by the society in which we live ... besides there's always a fist in the face which would stop your theft PDQ!

Ok then, me too - except I don't fear punishment so much. I like your stereo, thanks. I will die for this stereo if I have to.

SMACK!!!! Eco the idiot drops stereo and runs away bleeding from nose and mouth!

Yea, I guess that's why YHWH wrote a set of commands in stone. By the way, as you make all these assertions will you realize the importance of support? Now, I believe that I get to have your stereo, thanks - don't get in my way please. It wasn't always your stereo anyway - before you had it the store had it, and before that the factory...now it's my turn I believe.

There is no validatable evidence that your Yahweh exists. And you left the stereo behind when you ran away remember?

I expect its not as meaningless as you think. Now I know atheists don't worship God - the disbelief suggests that specifically, and I think I'm safe to come to that conclusion - so what do they worship (consider most important)? (in case you were wondering - I was fishing for information there from individual atheists).

Nothing, see above!

Ah, atheists do worship something after all. First you say the question is meaningless, then you go on and answer it...well, so be it. And, of course what they worship is related to their atheism - otherwise you might find atheists worshiping God.

Eco the dimwit misses the point again ... Padraic clearly said that SOME atheist worship material things but then again SO DO SOME THEISTS ... it's a normal human concept.

So you don't think anything is most important. You don't have a highest "reason for living". The purpose of life is life - that sounds redundant - perhaps you should put it in other words? Anyway, does anything else work like that - e.g. I work to work (not make money), I play to play (not to have fun), I eat to eat (not to get nourishment, I sleep to sleep (not to get rest), I talk to talk (not to communicate)?

To Padraic that is the purpose, me also though I also recognise my purpose is children, the future of the human race,, the hope that we will one day leave numbskulls like you behind as we set off to explore the galaxy.

Well, here you are proselytizing me, how contemptuous. Why would you chime in except to sell your own way of thinking? No one even asked you to participate you just jumped right in and began praising your way, and making my way look bad. Is the purpose of your disagreement just to disagree? Needless to say, I don't understand your way of thinking.

So, a theist comes to an atheist forum and bitches about an atheist that jumps in on his thread?

I suppose this is as good a point as any to point out that that is quite possibly the most naïve and stupid thing you've said yet!

Exactly. Why avoid explaining the mystery of what is known? Why do you insist on ignorance?

Ignorance? You mean ignorance of your god? Why are you ignorant of Zeus? Of Allah? Of Odin? Of Apollo? Of Quetzalcoatl? Of Zorb? Of the IPU?

Well, by worship I mean hold in highest regard - what's most important? Why would you avoid considering something of the highest importance? If you actually did that, you might get stuck on a decision - and die from inaction.

Define highest importance! I hold my wife in high regard, my children too.

Why would anything demand to be worshiped? If I thought God demanded worship, how could I reconcile it to the fact that you (among others) seem to get away with resisting His demand so easily?

Another dumb assertion ... if your god was real it doesn't leave much in the way of choice now does it?

Ok, so you finally got around to saying something that you would do. I have a question in response, naturally, which is: what does this, effectively, so called 'the adventure of life' consist of?

Exactly the same thing your life consists of ... minus the religion.

If you disagreed with the Nazis, as someone outside Nazi society, then could you, with your belief system, impose your will on the Nazis to stop what you considered "horrendous".

If I was able to stop the holocaust I suppose I would, yes.

Yea, and since nothing moral makes any sense anyway, what the Nazis did was right - and your opposition to what the Nazis did is right also. This must be impossible though, because two contradictory things cannot simultaneously be true. Plus, there's no way you could have stopped the Nazis, knowing that they were right.

They don't contradict because they are not me and I am not them! I can believe them wrong whilst they can believe the same of me. Yet another stupid assertion on your part.

Yea, don't critically think or do anything significant - if you can help it. That way you can focus on living life to the fullest, for you.

You beloieve what you do and you're telling me not to think critically? What a wingnut!

Yea, let's stay in your system of thought for this one. What God did must have been right, because He thought it was right. The Nazis thought what they were doing was right too, and to you - they were, even though you think they are wrong (and you're right for that, because your society told you so).

Ah but I don't have a problem with someone believing genocide is OK (I disagree but I don't have an issue with them holding the opinion) ... I DO however have a problem with morons who claim their god is good, that is supposedly loving and kind, the source of a consistent morality, yet wipes out an entire world! Of course I couldn't actually care less because it never fucking happened anyway!

This conversation isn't limited to only what you say - so answer the question and quit stalling. If you lived in Nazi society - who said murdering jews was good - would you happily murder jews?

I have no fucking idea! Given my current morality, no!

So, even though your society defines the death penalty as good - you disagree - why is that? If God legally wiped out almost all of mankind - you would disagree with that too - even though He would be right for doing such a thing. Now why would you think like that? Aren't we all just a bunch of chemical reactions anyway - not much different than plants or insects, you might say - so what's the harm in swatting an annoying gnat?

Because whilst my society defines what is moral, morals are not individual, I validate what I think and my conscience would rail against it.

Yes. Oh, well let's pretend instead that Hitler killed a bunch of Jews because he believed that was the right thing to do - and it was legal in his society. You would support him right?

No, why would I?

What do you think you are? A fucking Quaker?

Well, I'm not far off - I am using this computer here for communication purposes, but I generally avoid getting too caught up with high-tech stuff - specifically, I try to avoid relying on it. Do you have a problem with answer questions as they are asked, working to convey your message clearly, and stuff like that? Or should I prefer for you to beat around the bush all the day long and talk in code?

Almighty Zorb save us from morons!!!!

Me and Jesus disapprove.

And even if we accepted he was real do you think we’d give a shit what you and your favourite a zombie Jew thought?

God, indeed, makes it apparent that there is much more to life than family, friends, career, exploring new places, and games...namely God. You narrow minded atheists block God out, if only you could open up your mind to the immensity of the creator of the universe. Look at people as made in the image of God, worthy of love and respect.

Only a fool would say we lock a god out that we don’t believe in.

You are the one living for nothing though, because you cannot explain with even a shred of solid evidence why you even exist! Umm, what is a thousand years to God? Be patient, yet vigilant - or He will surprise you even more that you could imagine.

Er … we got a fairly fucking good idea actually and we don’t need a stupid magic-man in the sky to be a part of that explanation.

Ha-ha, you atheists will never take on the burden of explaining anything important. Like I said, I can't imagine how I could exist, if God does not. With no God, there can be no purpose. Why do you think you exist - don't say "for no reason", because that wouldn't be rational. And please, don't be ok with ignorance like some of your buddies, because that would be negligent. I'm sure atheists don't want to be known as deadbeats.

Evolution is why we exist.

Kyu