As time goes by

[Retorth]

So what happens when your family's interests clash with another person's/group's? Do you rig it so that your family will "win" - do you let the other group win - or do you appeal to some higher standard to settle the situation? In the latter case, where does the higher standard come from - and why should the other group listen to that standard?

If there is a clash of interests, I manage it like a mature individual. That does not include resorting to violence. I myself do not condone violence. For all the years I've been alive thus far, I've had no problems with people or groups of people with other ideologies. Besides, these are natural life occurances, to mix in society with other people. No two people are identical. Everyone has their own ways of doing things, their own opinions and styles of handling things. Religion has nothing to do with this. It's about social etiquette, patience and willingness to accept each other for our differences as well as similarities. I gladly accept you even with our differences in beliefs.

People will always die every day in the current system. I will die, you will die. I thought you were ok with death - now you're acting like you want people to live forever. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Of course we will all die. I definitely do not want to live forever. I am referring to suffering that your god appears to condone.

My question did not ask about enemies alone - go back and reread if you must. The Africans are included in the question as "strangers" - you said "I don't believe in jesus so why do I care?" and then "what about them?" - I assumed these statements to refer to both strangers and enemies. Sounds like you're going to let those strangers suffer - since you're too busy living for your family.

I never said "I do not care about strangers". If it seemed that I implyed that, I apologize. I will obviously help people around me within my power. I will always lend a helping hand whenever I can I am only human, however, so there is a limit to how far I can reach. The god that you believe in, however, is supposedly almighty.

Perfection does not require inactivity - and this argument is based upon that specifically. So, in sum, this bizarre argument falls flat rather quickly. You can't claim that a perfect God desires nothing or that He will do nothing. How would you know how perfection works anyway? This sounds like the couch-potatoe's or dead-beat's idea of perfection - just pure, inactive, irresponsible existence.

Perfection is the equivilent of equilibrium. Equilibrium requires nothing. It is equal in all ways. It is satisfied. But you claim god created man. Furthermore, he destroyed man after creating it. If that were the case, he'd be imperfect because he changes his mind.

Do you agree that a rational cause for this existence is important?

I will not accept a supernatural being as the cause for existence, unless I am provided with infallible evidence to back up the claim. It is as simple as that. I respect that you believe in something so strongly even though there is nothing to back it up except faith. You are courageous in your own right, but it still does not prove to me that god exists and that he is the cause of existence. I need to be shown undeniable evidence.

If you live for something inside this universe then you live for nothing - because it will all be destroyed according to you (it will be as though it had never existed). I am the one living for something with enduring value.

I beg to differ. I am living for what is real and solid, what I can see, feel and touch. You are living for an entity you do not even know exists for sure. You have nothing to prove that it isn't a load of crock, or do you?

[quote='ecolox']Then what is there to begin with - for you? You throw out the only option, but why would you say you exist? By the way, I can't/don't have to explain God (unless it is relevant to us)...the rational mission I can take on is explaining my own existence and discovering what I should be doing with it.

Read above. I have already explained the reason for my existence, more then once. To put it in a graphical representation, I put my eggs in a straw basket that sits on the floor, made by the hands of fellow man, rather then a floating basket made by the supernatural forces.

If you had infallible evidence that God exists - how would that effect your choice? Could God test you in the same way? I tend to think that His experiment is set up properly already - that people don't need infallible evidence to live like they know He exists. Some people want to live differently bad enough to deny His existence.

If I had infallible evidence of his existence, I would have no choice but to accept him, which I obviously would, as I said. How can he be denied if he cannot be proven in the first place? I have yet to be shown any such evidence.

[quote='ecolox']No, I don't see that at all. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain. You're coming ever closer to destruction every day - and nothing you do will ever change that - in your belief and in mine.

If by 'destruction' you mean death, then obviously yes, we are all coming close to our final day...thats obvious. We grow older by the second. No god is going to change that.

If I learned that then I would die, and that would be the end of it - just like you think will happen to you. I will have loved my family, friends, strangers, and enemies for nothing. Indeed, I will have lived for nothing - just like you

That is very unfortunate for you.