(August 9, 2012 at 4:41 pm)genkaus Wrote: 1. She was a poor writer - and the evidence of this was.... a line about her dull prose and dummy characters and an "appeal to authority" line which doesn't even reflect on her writing skills. In fact, if her books are capable of invoking life-long obsession then she must be a darn good writer.
It's subjective. In the sense that she obviously had success, yeah, she was good at what she did. However it doesn't necessarily make her a good writer. How would you define a good writer? By their success alone?
Quote:2. The comments about "voluntary participation in society" are pretty much meaningless. According to the poster, Rand said that the individual's participation should be voluntary which is not the case in real world. Well, duh. That's why Rand said "should be" and not "is". Adding "Rand's sacrosanct concept of property rights are meaningless without a society" is not really a criticism. Especially since Rand herself defined rights as "moral principle defining and sanctioning a man’s freedom of action in a social context".
It is a criticism in the sense it doesn't make a difference in the real world. That's the point of the criticism. We can all imagine up perfect ideals, but if they don't shape into the real world then what sense is there to say you have them. You either have the ideals or you don't. I think it's a very fair criticism.
Quote:3. According to the video, being an ideal randian individualist means never getting any help from anyone. That's a mis-characterization. The correct idea would be "never accepting any help that you did not repay in full".
Yeah, that's a fair shout. However the critique of the fact she didn't actually follow these ideals in actuality, is again, a fair one.
Quote:4. She demonized poor and glorified the wealthy - not so much. Another mis-characterization. The characters in both good and bad camps were in equal part wealthy and poor. The characters she wrote as the ideal Randian individuals - Roark and Galt - would not be considered wealthy by any standard.
Fair enough.
Quote:5. Apparently, she inspired "generations of selfish assholes". And as examples we have... zilch. This would be an ad-hominem. If you like Ayn Rand, you are a selfish asshole. Doesn't mean anything she said is wrong.
Again, fair enough. Can't argue with that.
Quote:Read your own damn posts before you reply.
I always do... but carry on.
Quote: You said "when people start threads criticizing bible scripture they don't just do it 'ostensibly for the reason of criticizing it'. They do it for a more underlying reason, mainly to show that if something is stupid it should be treated as such. The same can be applied to this thread"
You did not mention anything about the effect and you are the one missing that point. People don't engage in lengthy diatribes or post long videos only to "show something is stupid" if it has no effect on their lives.
Well it goes without saying that these things have some effect. I thought that would be a given. You misunderstand what I'm saying about the effect these things have. I'm saying, the effect itself, doesn't matter in regards to my analogy.
In other words, you were saying that I was unable to use my analogy because the bible has way more effect socially than Ayn Rand correct? (I may have forgot because this whole argument is getting pretty ridiculous now)
I'm saying, why the fuck does that matter. The analogy I used still makes sense, it still shows the point.
Quote:You don't see a section here about Greek Mythology, do you?
So are you saying, that because in most people's lives greek mythology doesn't come up, it's any less valid to point out the flaws in greek mythology. I really don't follow this line of logic.
Quote:The significant volume of Ayn Rand critics, far out in proportion to her following, points to a hatedom.
Care to provide some statistical evidence to back up that claim? Or are you just talking out your ass again.
Quote:I am just laying out your rationale for you. If you don't attach any particular significance to Ayn Rand's works and have simply started this thread because you happen to think it is stupid - then there are mountains of other works equally or more stupid which deserve your equal attention and there is no reason for you to focus simply on Rand. Is there any particular reason you are more interested in Rand and not, say, Marx?
What the fuck is this? The post police? What, I'm not allowed to make posts on things that I find interesting?
Why do people like the colour blue more than the colour green? How the fuck should I know, I don't have anything to explain to you.
You seem to be the guy with the problem here. Are you getting offended by the fact that this is thread centred over Rand? Are you her biggest fan or something?
What does it matter to you, seriously.
Quote:Oh, I'm sorry, can you name anyone who does commit to her ideas completely? Or is it a diversion from the fact that you have no good reason to pick Rand out of a multitude of others that you'd also find stupid.
I'm not obligated to name anyone, this is getting so pathetic it's unreal.
I've given you my reason.
IT INTERESTS ME.
If that's not a good enough reason, then what more can I say other than: fuck off.
Quote:Stop hating, it's getting a tad annoying.
Are you intentionally trying to sound like a butthurt Ayn Rand fanboy, or are you just trying to be funny.
