RE: Faith, Hope and Love - the pillars of destruction?
August 20, 2012 at 1:06 pm
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2012 at 1:10 pm by Ciel_Rouge.)
Haha RaphielDrake, that was a good one ;-)
Anyway, hi Hoptoad, nice to have you contributing to my thread. I have to tell you this: I tend to think that with Christianity basically dictating the principles of European and later American culture, dictionary definitions simply reflect what has penetrated deep into the language and the unconsious mind of its users. We have become so used to them that thinking outside the box is difficult. Difficult but not impossible.
I like your examples a lot better than definitions.
Well, I think the doctor WANTS to find a cure and he has the potential to do it so he does attempt it. The one HOPING is the PATIENT who cannot do anything. To me hope always has something passive to it as well as something submissive.
Indeed, that is a great example - there once was a song called Zombie by Cranberries and its lyrics went like "it's in your heeead, in your heeeeaaaad". Faith can be very dangerous. For instance, before World War 2 the German civilian population BELIEVED Hitler was going to lead Germany to a victorious future. He himself BELIEVED that too and this is why he lost the war - because at some moment he stopped thinking and was only left with his belief. The very moment you stop thinking and start believing what others tell you, it is most likely you are putting yourself in some kind of danger. Sometimes we cannot analyze and belief is all we have. But in my personal opinion it should be the last resort, not the basis of our daily actions. And it is also a great thing to realize that some of the structure of our interpersonal reality is indeed only based upon collective belief - so the coins in our pockets are only pieces of metal used in an abstract way as one of a trillion ways of exerting social pressure upon individuals. I suppose one cannot avoid it but it is already very liberating and enlightening to realize how it works.
Indeed a very Christian thing to say. Religion IS a governing force and using the term love in both power over people and deep personal relations is a remarkable trick. But it all boils down to the origins of Christianity - the slave LOVES his master so he will sacrifice himself. Where there is "love" there is always obsession, repression and some kind of sacrifice on one or both sides. In my humble opinion a lot of interpersonal relations would do better without this - no suicides by men, no beating up of women who "cheated" etc. Just fondness and affection, joy and mutual reinforcement, emotional power and safety but no poisonous stuff.
Christianity pretends to be tolerant until it becomes a dominant force itself. In Poland there is a Catholic radio station called Radio Maryja that regularly broadcasts hatred based on nationalism - they tell their listeners and followers to hate Jews, Germans and Russians and the state does not seem to bother to do anything because the radio station is supported by... the Vatican. If you don't believe ;-) me, just go check some news about it on the internet.
I do look around the world and I really DO NOT like what I see. I see repression of women, I see people being very passive when they should take action, I see a lot of fake smiling and double thinking, a lot of hypocrisy, too much idleness and far too little thinking. And I believe that Christianity may have something to do with it as it encourages and spreads this exact kind of behaviour with its famous paralyzing triplet.
Anyway, hi Hoptoad, nice to have you contributing to my thread. I have to tell you this: I tend to think that with Christianity basically dictating the principles of European and later American culture, dictionary definitions simply reflect what has penetrated deep into the language and the unconsious mind of its users. We have become so used to them that thinking outside the box is difficult. Difficult but not impossible.
I like your examples a lot better than definitions.
(August 20, 2012 at 6:46 am)Hoptoad Wrote: Hope, hopes active, the doctor hopes to find a cure, so he looks for one, Hope drives people to find solutions to look for answers, nothing passive about hope.
Well, I think the doctor WANTS to find a cure and he has the potential to do it so he does attempt it. The one HOPING is the PATIENT who cannot do anything. To me hope always has something passive to it as well as something submissive.
(August 20, 2012 at 6:46 am)Hoptoad Wrote: Faith, I will call it belief, if you don't mind to remove the religious connotations, is the most powerful force on earth. Let me explain, look around you at the world you inhabit, all the different races, nations, economy's, legal and political systems etc etc. In fact most of the structure of the world, only exists initially within the human mind.
Indeed, that is a great example - there once was a song called Zombie by Cranberries and its lyrics went like "it's in your heeead, in your heeeeaaaad". Faith can be very dangerous. For instance, before World War 2 the German civilian population BELIEVED Hitler was going to lead Germany to a victorious future. He himself BELIEVED that too and this is why he lost the war - because at some moment he stopped thinking and was only left with his belief. The very moment you stop thinking and start believing what others tell you, it is most likely you are putting yourself in some kind of danger. Sometimes we cannot analyze and belief is all we have. But in my personal opinion it should be the last resort, not the basis of our daily actions. And it is also a great thing to realize that some of the structure of our interpersonal reality is indeed only based upon collective belief - so the coins in our pockets are only pieces of metal used in an abstract way as one of a trillion ways of exerting social pressure upon individuals. I suppose one cannot avoid it but it is already very liberating and enlightening to realize how it works.
(August 20, 2012 at 6:46 am)Hoptoad Wrote: Love, is also a driving force, but it is a governing force as well. (you can remember I am a Christian now if you want)
Indeed a very Christian thing to say. Religion IS a governing force and using the term love in both power over people and deep personal relations is a remarkable trick. But it all boils down to the origins of Christianity - the slave LOVES his master so he will sacrifice himself. Where there is "love" there is always obsession, repression and some kind of sacrifice on one or both sides. In my humble opinion a lot of interpersonal relations would do better without this - no suicides by men, no beating up of women who "cheated" etc. Just fondness and affection, joy and mutual reinforcement, emotional power and safety but no poisonous stuff.
(August 20, 2012 at 6:46 am)Hoptoad Wrote: That guy over there is different from me, not part of my group, different religion, different complexion, different ways to me, all my animal instinct tell me he is a threat, even other people tell me he is a threat. But if I treat that guy as a threat, he will in turn feel threatened and will see me as a threat
Then may actually become the threat I originally feared. If I treat him with a bit of kindness there is a good chance he wont be a threat, most people are not.
Christianity pretends to be tolerant until it becomes a dominant force itself. In Poland there is a Catholic radio station called Radio Maryja that regularly broadcasts hatred based on nationalism - they tell their listeners and followers to hate Jews, Germans and Russians and the state does not seem to bother to do anything because the radio station is supported by... the Vatican. If you don't believe ;-) me, just go check some news about it on the internet.
(August 20, 2012 at 6:46 am)Hoptoad Wrote: Well that's my definition, there is a lot more to the concepts, the three together and love the most important. Also if looking around the world and you don't like what you see, what is only held together by you and others collective belief, then perhaps you and the others can believe something else.
I do look around the world and I really DO NOT like what I see. I see repression of women, I see people being very passive when they should take action, I see a lot of fake smiling and double thinking, a lot of hypocrisy, too much idleness and far too little thinking. And I believe that Christianity may have something to do with it as it encourages and spreads this exact kind of behaviour with its famous paralyzing triplet.
