Why was the crucifixion necessary ?

[Drich]

I can present you with a book that claims that three little pigs can build houses. "it is written". Does that make it true? does that make it real? can you understand the difference between these two concepts?

But I asked you to be recursive.... Someone wrote whatever is on the bible. How did that person come to have that knowledge?

Holy Spirit inspired the account.

Sorry for being stupid, but I fail to see how that knowledge came to be in the possession of a human being.

God authored the passage, through the pen of Paul's scribe.

The fear of hell that the clerics have bestowed upon mankind.

What fear? Do you fear hell? I don't. It seems the only people who do pray to a man in Italy.

Again, how does anyone know that there is such a thing? ...Oh yeah, written in a book...
I don't buy that, in case you haven't noticed.

YOU don't have to.

According to the myth, the guy created this rock and all the bugs that inhabit it. Why should he care what the bugs choose to believe?

I don't know that He does.

If he wanted the bugs' souls near him.... why not just create a bunch of souls to keep him company?

He did, and 1/3 of them chose to risk literal Hell than stay.

Why bother with this rock?

To provide an oppertunity of true Choice without the imediate knoweledge of the glory of God to influence the 'souls' desision.

What I meant was that everyone would know of the existence of a given super-natural being. Not 100, not 3, not 50.... just that one (or that one group... who knows?)

Why? If they did would it not disrupt the choice we have been given to make in this life?

How do you know that that is his reason for giving us this life?

The bible says so.

It is written? oh, yeah.... not buying it, remember?

so?
You are asking Questions about God that are based on what the bible says. you can not choose to then ignore the same bible when the answers you seek, are based on the bible you orginally asked your questions from.

well you can, but your 'logic' will be deemed fallacious, and therefore dismissed as an invalid arguement. eitherway this line of reasoning you have presented is at an end... Hence my orginal response. So?

How is it that anyone ever came to know that?

How does anyone know anything about God?
God told them. Or God Inspired the account.

Was it written before anyone wrote it?!

Maybe you can ask God that one, yourself.

soooo.... some options are always good:
- If I believe there is a hell, I choose to steer clear of it.
- If I know there is a hell, I choose to steer clear of it.

Actually no. Not all who know of Hell steer clear of it.

- If I don't believe there is a hell, I don't choose anything.- If I don't know there is a hell, I don't choose anything.

Choosing nothing is Choosing Hell/eternal seperation from God..

How is knowledge different from belief, here?

You answer that in you next sentence. In that one can choose to dismiss simple belief.

Of course, I refuse to believe, so I could only be lead to steer clear of hell by knowing about it.

Why? as a matter of self perservation or because you will somehow begin to love God?

And your god would know this very well, but still decline me the knowledge that would steer me in his direction.

again, Not all want to steer clear of eternal seperation from God. In return God does not want Heaven populated with those seeking to simply save themselves.

Why create something to send to hell?

Because not all want to goto Heaven, and eternally serve God.

I cannot choose to believe. I refuse to believe in the existence of the super-natural. My mind doesn't allow such nonsense.

Simple belief is not the goal. Love is. One must Love the Lord God with all their Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength. The demons 'believe' and it means nothing to God.

Some species are born and associate the first living thing they see with their mothers. If there is love in there or not, I don't know.... If there is love in a days old baby, I don't know. Do you know?

Yes, for the love required is defined. Not as a 'feeling or a strong desire' but as an all encompassing devotion. In the greek there are 4 words that simply translate into the word' love' in the english. You only seem to associeate greek word "Eros" with Love. (passion or strong feeling) What God is looking for is Agape'. This love is an effort or a choice. even if a young child does not know his Mother as His mother he still chooses to bond with her with all that he is, and as such qualifies as Agape' (or simply 'Love' in the english.)

Eventually, kids grow and come to love their parents... but they know about them, by then, don't you agree?

I agree that this love matures over time the greeks have a name for this type of love as well 'Storge'

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did you test your waters or God's?

If god showed up and pissed in a test tube that would be evidence....subject to proving that he was actually "god."

So you would need God to show up to prove himself to be God but then He'd have to prove himself to be God if he showed up...

Does that sum up your requirements?
You want a self verification of God, from God??? Yet you are the first to shoot down any arguement siting the bible when anything that resembles this mess is attempted.. (their is a whole nother discussion here, but I will digress)

Or are you saying there is nothing God could say or do to prove anything to you? If this is the case and God could not prove anything to you then why should I try to? If this is not what you are saying then please simply state the one thing you would need to know God exists. Without doubt without question or second thought. what culd God give you that would allow or rather FORCE you to have an unshakeable faith for the rest of your life?