There is a big difference between...

[Violet]

Just to note: Elionnwy's mother couldn't have had her (and her siblings) any other time Sae, if she'd had her another time it wouldn't be her, would it?

EvF

Then another person would have been born instead. A person is a person... no matter what their attributes. We are all different, so if I had not been born: someone else would have been. Have *I* any more of a right to have been born than them? Of course not. But I was born, and not them. Therefore my life has worth... their life is hypothetical.

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Sae,

Poverty and being poor generally means very low on money as well as no money. So I didn't assume you meant totally without money because the term "poor" is broader than that. "Poor" can be that you can't afford anything but the essentials. It isn't excluded to not being able to afford the essentials at all. One could say poor was working class, meaning not middle or above. Anywhere from that down to completely skint and with no income.

EvF

I was using the wrong word then I was using those terms to describe the point of income between barely affording the essentials and being unable to afford them. I drew a grey area between those two points, and another grey area between barely able to afford them and afford them with a little money to spare (I.E, where middle class starts).

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Fish ARE meat! >_< Why is a baby worth so much to you?

Why is a baby worth so little to you?

Why is it that when people don't want them they are just a fetus, but when they do they are their baby? In fact people have been convicted of murder for unborn babies, most notably Scott Peterson for murdering his wife and unborn son. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Laci_Peterson

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Then you do not fall into "The majority people living at poverty level" category. The people *I* consider as living in poverty are those who cannot, or can hardly, afford proper meals and shelter...

Life almost always wants to live and keep living... but that is 'not the point'. If you cannot get out of the situation you were in Eilon... then the odds are highly in favor of you perishing. You say you needed health care... and yet you probably didn't get it until after you got out of poverty? That is a problem... a problem that should not ever have to occur.

When in poverty, a child is a very expensive thing to care for. If your parents had not chosen to have you and your other siblings when they did: they probably could have had a secure home for you to live in. And then they could have you without fearing survival every day. They could have brought up their children in a MUCH better situation... and yet they chose selfishly to have you when they did.

If your mother had not had Liz, then the resources allocated for her could have been used to better home life for the lot of you. Your sister's decision was intelligent and her success as a result is why one should avoid having children young.

It is entirely the mother's choice... but she should consider every single option before she has or aborts the child. She should especially consider her economical status in this matter, and realize that having children is simply bad for one's budget flexibility, and that children cost a great deal of money to raise.

I agree with your last statement entirely

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My parents did not selfishly chose to have me when they did. They planned for me and my older sister, money problems came much later in life, so I resent your statement, especially when you made it without knowing facts. And even if it were true, even if I wasn't plan, then fuck you. How dare you tell me my parents are selfish for loving and wanting me. Do you value life so little that such a momentous decision is easily relegated to how well off you are?

You seem to think abortion is so easy. Don't have the money? Well let's get rid of it! Every woman who have had abortions for that very reason can tell you decision is NOT that easy and it stays with them the rest of their life. My sister still feels troubled and guilty. Maybe she made the right decision, who knows. But either way it was hard, and not so easy to come to just because of money. Every situation is complex, so I would suggest you refrain from judging when you don't know all the facts.

I love my sister and I am damn glad to have her in my life, I wouldn't want it any other way. She's a joy in my life and no amount of money problems would ever make me wish my mother aborted her.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=15...1134961536

You've the burden of proof in this matter. Everything is valueless until it is considered by something to have value. Again: why is a baby so valuable to you? That man murdered a living person, the unborn baby concerns me not in this instance. I think of fetus and baby as interchangeable, and use both. Life begins at birth... until then it is just the matter that makes up life. 9 months pregnant? Still abortable. Recommended time to abort? Not at all... but still possible without murder. Why the hell would a person nourish something they were going to abort for 9 months though? That is a huge waste...

With this new knowledge of the facts Eilon: They didn't plan very well... they didn't have enough money to protect their status from the unforeseen... which is why i say that one must be absolutly secure before they have children. It is true that I value life very little... and if my own life's value is so low: why should I value the life of a stranger any more?

The only lives I hold more value than my own upon: are worthy of that value. And a great number of people have earned that worth in my eyes. I value some life, but don't value other life. Life's value is only the value of its attributes and its choice. But I value attributes as but a tenth of how I value choices... Those choices determine for me a person's worth.

Abortion is especially easy for me: That life has only possibly good/bad attributes supporting its existence... it has made no choices. However, a baby is worth that nine months of time investment by the mother... and has the value of a person's choice placed upon it. That baby is worth something... but those who have been aborted are worth next to nothing.

That you love your sister places value upon her. I admit that I could never love someone I have not heard of, or met... A baby would have to be born before I could love it.