There is a big difference between...

[Violet]

Eilon... I will not apologize for making conclusions on how the facts were presented (I do apologize that I cut you down though). Circumstances are just this: circumstantial. They are evidential of nothing. I have debated this with simple logic... and I refuse to apologize for you having brought up your own circumstances. We all have our own lives, and all of our lives are different... and in this way all of our lives are similar. All of us have little pieces of personal evidence we can cite... and I could cite my own, as you have. But what would the point be? I could let you understand what I am coming from, and exactly every reason why I need to be free to make my own choices... but then I would be telling you too much, and you would argue that I don't really need what I truly need.

We always try our best to do what is right... but we are often wrong.

You tell me to grow up a little more... but I ask you: what will that help? You are convinced I am wrong, yet you have given only generalizations and circumstances as your evidence. I should like to turn your statement upon you, the "grow up a little more, it isn't all about you" statement... but how would that help you? You will come away with no more understanding than will have I. Logical debate though... that will allow one such as I to understand.

We must not base our rights upon what we are... but instead upon what we could (with very little work) be. You think my ideals are only possible in a perfect world: but you undervalue our world because of where it is right now. Most of the movers and shakers of our world were so doubted because they held an ideal that they knew the world could meet... but which the world didn't dream was possible. Tell me how I am so different.

At its core, what I say is only fair. At its ends, what I say is only fair. In every application of this system: it is by definition fair. Abortion is no different than eating... and to think otherwise is to hold an unfair double standard for humans... one that they do not deserve. To make abortion mandatory would be unfair of course... but to make it highly recommended, and to fully educate the possible mother on every part of the matter: that is fair. That is 100%, undeniably fair. And I do not see why you would argue this. The final choice lies with the mother... but logic is heavily on one side of this issue.

I eat, Eilon... abortion is easy for me I will not talk about your family anymore, and I am sorry I gave you the hard line for bringing them up. Please do not bring such things up in future though: I have no interest in highly circumstantial personal evidence. I know it is not an easy, or uncomplicated choice... but there is the simple and far easier option... or there is the difficult and time consuming option. Once again, I apologize for cutting down your family... but you should never have brought them up (Just as I have not brought up all of my very unique circumstances).

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I'd like to fix the population being a problem (by finding more efficient ways of producing food..<snip>

There's a population problem because we're already too efficient at producing food. The production of rice and potatoes enabled support of very many more people per area. It's the other things we're raping the planet of that's the problem here. We're at viral mass and apparently can't reverse our own destructiveness.

How I think of it is this: If the would-be parents truly love the children they will have... I should expect them to love their children enough to wait on having them.

They love each other first. Children are the result of love & not necessarily planned (did you miss sex ed? )

As a side note: do you all realize how difficult it is to respond to 5 people at once?

Erm.. Yes! Welcome to the dark side!!!

Oh, I agree on how the problem began But now there is the new problem of dealing with 4-5 billion people too many to consider optimal. I don't want to kill them... and I would like to keep as many of them alive as possible... but how could this be done feasibly is the question

No, I actually was ahead of sex ed by several years Use several forms of contraception, and your chance of having children will be much lower. You can't ever rule it out entirely (Unless you do something as drastic as removing the ovaries or something...)... but you can be reasonably certain you won't get pregnant. Also, children are not the result of love... but of non-contracepted heterosexual sex among reproductive adults.

Ooh, the dark side!? Do I getz a ?