RE: OK Christians. your chance. Convince me of God.
September 19, 2012 at 10:51 am
(This post was last modified: September 19, 2012 at 11:08 am by The Grand Nudger.)
@Drich
-On the issue of god and gravity-
Firstly, no one expects you to "believe" in gravity, and laying aside this common and amatuerish attempt at equivocation, suppose you didn't "believe" in gravity? It is possible, if you were so inclined, to educate yourself on the subject. You could repeat the experiments, you could devise your own experiments, you could formulate a different hypothesis as to what is actually occurring. All of this is demonstrable, quantifiable. At no point will you have to resort to "I believe" nor will anyone else interested in your investigations and conclusions on the subject of gravity be forced, compelled, or even persuaded to "believe". All I see here is an attempt to excuse ignorance in one instance so that one might feel more comfortable excusing ignorance in another. What really grinds my gears is the response to the next comment, about "shunning formal education". Well, clearly that doesn't seem to be a problem for you but let me help to explain why the two examples (god and gravity,in this case) are entirely dissimilar; and by extension why your comments on the matter are soup sandwich. You could, as explained above, educate yourself on the subject of gravity. There is knowledge to be had. On the other hand, were you to read the bible and believe in the bible unto the end of days you would -know- precisely as much about god as you did before you had ever even heard the word god. Which is to say, jack shit. Belief =/= Knowledge, no matter how strongly you believe it ( or how often you repeat it).
-On my favorite conversational droppings...platitudes-
"The process starts with Want".
Yes, the process of wishing, wishful thinking, and wish fulfillment begins with want. If you "wish" for this process to proceed past the point of fantasy something else will be required. Something you have flat out refused to provide, something which you have eroded at every mention, and something which you spend considerable amounts of time attempting to devalue right out of the gate. This is exactly why your fantasies are about as far from compelling as something can possibly be, for me, personally.
"Gods plan"
Roger, roger, you feel comfortable invoking The Divine Plan™ but not the divine gaffs. Look, this is blisteringly simple. If you want to invoke a plan (and a planner) its childish to then contort yourself any convenient old way to excuse said planner for the deficiencies in said plan. There is good and bad to be responsible for if this is all a plan. If you want the credit, you accept the culpability. (and yes, Drich, I said "you"...because that's all I see in this thread, no god, just Drich. I say your plan is shit.)
"He tells us through the bible"
No, human beings tell you things through the bible. That is the only demonstrable part of this equation. Unless you can establish that any hand other than mans went into this fairy tale you're just jerking your inner fairies pecker on this count. It is not a response to a question, it is not an explanation, it's an empty phrase.
-On dogs-
This provides me with a great opportunity to express precisely why I'm glad I'm not a dog, and why I refuse to willingly become one. We kill dogs who attack human beings not because it is right, or just, but because we can. We have absolute power over the lives of those animals, and largely, we don't extend much in the way of consideration to them that we might extend to another human being (though we do often treat each other "like a dog". If whether or not we kept a dog that mauled a child had anything to say on the subject of a god and why a god does the things it does than we are accomplishing nothing less than a comparison of mans pitiless extermination of creatures who have ceased to be useful to him with gods extermination of man (and just when we might think that it couldn't get any more idiotic and cruel, remember that man merely destroys the dog's body, god's wetwork involves some "immortal soul").
-God (and mans) righteousness-
I disagree, if god were to chase down mans righteousness he would at least be worthy of having a conversation and a cup of coffee with. As it stands this god is barely worth the rope hanging from the yard arm. In that scenario (god chasing our morality) god would be at the very least our equal, instead of the boogeyman it currently is. Let's be clear here, I'm not the one looking for a servant out of any god, that would be you amigo. You require that this god be bound by some shitty little fanfic written by people who; I would hazard a guess; had less "moral fiber" in their entire body than you have in your pinky (all the bullshit on these forums aside). God can be nothing other than what has been written, and specifically what you have accepted. Who's making the demands here, who's seeking a servant?
-"Suffering comes to us all like it or not, when our number is called we can suffer with or without God. I choose to suffer for purpose and mean. However if you wish to deprive you and your family of that, then that desision is on you."-
Agreed, suffering comes to us all, in some way or another, to varying degrees. This sort of comment is a really interesting one, because it demonstrates that the author is capable of stringing words together that have some relation to reality -even if it can only be maintained for a single sentence before diving headfirst into a shallow pool of passive aggressive fantasy. You choose something indeed, you've chosen a purpose for your suffering, regardless of whether or not it actually exists (and you clearly aren't interested in demonstrating that it does- if you were, you would have done so by now). What makes you think that you are somehow different to anyone else on this count? Most of us manufacture our own little purposes and reasons for this and that just as you have here. What fantasies some might wish to deprive their families of is firstly, -no business of yours- and lastly, -no business of yours-. I also find it beyond annoying that you would make such thinly veiled threats with some unknown persons family as the hook. Douche-move from the groveling servant of the douche-god. I suppose this shouldn't suprise me, "spare the rod"
-Child services is not meant to be the primary source of care for all children. Child services holds neglegent parents accountable for their actions.-
Correct, Child services holds negligent parents accountable (a title which your god proposition clearly qualifies for) and if those parents are deemed to be unfit (to reverse the roles...a condemnation clearly made by your god against ourselves) it then assumes responsibility for the well-being of the child (an action plainly beyond your cunt of a god, content to simply wash it's hands and damn the child..in this case..literally).
"Man, do as I say and not as I do!"
"Our only task is to point people in the direction to find said evidence on their own when asked."
Then start pointing, hooah? If the things you point to aren't evidence at all then you aren't doing your "task", eh?
-On the issue of god and gravity-
Firstly, no one expects you to "believe" in gravity, and laying aside this common and amatuerish attempt at equivocation, suppose you didn't "believe" in gravity? It is possible, if you were so inclined, to educate yourself on the subject. You could repeat the experiments, you could devise your own experiments, you could formulate a different hypothesis as to what is actually occurring. All of this is demonstrable, quantifiable. At no point will you have to resort to "I believe" nor will anyone else interested in your investigations and conclusions on the subject of gravity be forced, compelled, or even persuaded to "believe". All I see here is an attempt to excuse ignorance in one instance so that one might feel more comfortable excusing ignorance in another. What really grinds my gears is the response to the next comment, about "shunning formal education". Well, clearly that doesn't seem to be a problem for you but let me help to explain why the two examples (god and gravity,in this case) are entirely dissimilar; and by extension why your comments on the matter are soup sandwich. You could, as explained above, educate yourself on the subject of gravity. There is knowledge to be had. On the other hand, were you to read the bible and believe in the bible unto the end of days you would -know- precisely as much about god as you did before you had ever even heard the word god. Which is to say, jack shit. Belief =/= Knowledge, no matter how strongly you believe it ( or how often you repeat it).
-On my favorite conversational droppings...platitudes-
"The process starts with Want".
Yes, the process of wishing, wishful thinking, and wish fulfillment begins with want. If you "wish" for this process to proceed past the point of fantasy something else will be required. Something you have flat out refused to provide, something which you have eroded at every mention, and something which you spend considerable amounts of time attempting to devalue right out of the gate. This is exactly why your fantasies are about as far from compelling as something can possibly be, for me, personally.
"Gods plan"
Roger, roger, you feel comfortable invoking The Divine Plan™ but not the divine gaffs. Look, this is blisteringly simple. If you want to invoke a plan (and a planner) its childish to then contort yourself any convenient old way to excuse said planner for the deficiencies in said plan. There is good and bad to be responsible for if this is all a plan. If you want the credit, you accept the culpability. (and yes, Drich, I said "you"...because that's all I see in this thread, no god, just Drich. I say your plan is shit.)
"He tells us through the bible"
No, human beings tell you things through the bible. That is the only demonstrable part of this equation. Unless you can establish that any hand other than mans went into this fairy tale you're just jerking your inner fairies pecker on this count. It is not a response to a question, it is not an explanation, it's an empty phrase.
-On dogs-
This provides me with a great opportunity to express precisely why I'm glad I'm not a dog, and why I refuse to willingly become one. We kill dogs who attack human beings not because it is right, or just, but because we can. We have absolute power over the lives of those animals, and largely, we don't extend much in the way of consideration to them that we might extend to another human being (though we do often treat each other "like a dog". If whether or not we kept a dog that mauled a child had anything to say on the subject of a god and why a god does the things it does than we are accomplishing nothing less than a comparison of mans pitiless extermination of creatures who have ceased to be useful to him with gods extermination of man (and just when we might think that it couldn't get any more idiotic and cruel, remember that man merely destroys the dog's body, god's wetwork involves some "immortal soul").
-God (and mans) righteousness-
I disagree, if god were to chase down mans righteousness he would at least be worthy of having a conversation and a cup of coffee with. As it stands this god is barely worth the rope hanging from the yard arm. In that scenario (god chasing our morality) god would be at the very least our equal, instead of the boogeyman it currently is. Let's be clear here, I'm not the one looking for a servant out of any god, that would be you amigo. You require that this god be bound by some shitty little fanfic written by people who; I would hazard a guess; had less "moral fiber" in their entire body than you have in your pinky (all the bullshit on these forums aside). God can be nothing other than what has been written, and specifically what you have accepted. Who's making the demands here, who's seeking a servant?
-"Suffering comes to us all like it or not, when our number is called we can suffer with or without God. I choose to suffer for purpose and mean. However if you wish to deprive you and your family of that, then that desision is on you."-
Agreed, suffering comes to us all, in some way or another, to varying degrees. This sort of comment is a really interesting one, because it demonstrates that the author is capable of stringing words together that have some relation to reality -even if it can only be maintained for a single sentence before diving headfirst into a shallow pool of passive aggressive fantasy. You choose something indeed, you've chosen a purpose for your suffering, regardless of whether or not it actually exists (and you clearly aren't interested in demonstrating that it does- if you were, you would have done so by now). What makes you think that you are somehow different to anyone else on this count? Most of us manufacture our own little purposes and reasons for this and that just as you have here. What fantasies some might wish to deprive their families of is firstly, -no business of yours- and lastly, -no business of yours-. I also find it beyond annoying that you would make such thinly veiled threats with some unknown persons family as the hook. Douche-move from the groveling servant of the douche-god. I suppose this shouldn't suprise me, "spare the rod"
-Child services is not meant to be the primary source of care for all children. Child services holds neglegent parents accountable for their actions.-
Correct, Child services holds negligent parents accountable (a title which your god proposition clearly qualifies for) and if those parents are deemed to be unfit (to reverse the roles...a condemnation clearly made by your god against ourselves) it then assumes responsibility for the well-being of the child (an action plainly beyond your cunt of a god, content to simply wash it's hands and damn the child..in this case..literally).
"Man, do as I say and not as I do!"
"Our only task is to point people in the direction to find said evidence on their own when asked."
Then start pointing, hooah? If the things you point to aren't evidence at all then you aren't doing your "task", eh?
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