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Free Will: Fact or Fiction
#69
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction
(October 1, 2012 at 12:27 pm)apophenia Wrote: The question is not "do we make decisions," but rather, are the decisions we make freely made?

Agreed, good start.

(October 1, 2012 at 12:27 pm)apophenia Wrote: I reduce the constraints on human behavior down to two strategies.
1. Antagonizing behaviors that agonize discomfort and anxiety (reduce behaviors which increase pain or displeasure; e.g. distracting yourself from worrying about that promotion)
2. Agonizing behaviors that antagonize discomfort or anxiety (increase behaviors that reduce [subjective] discomfort; e.g. eating when we feel hungry)

I hope you won't mind if I comment that this seems vastly oversimplistic, and while you're entitled to your view, asking me to buy it without any scientific basis is a bridge too far.

(October 1, 2012 at 12:27 pm)apophenia Wrote: I would argue that the human organism always seeks what it considers to be the ideal compromise amongst all factors. If this is true, then its choices aren't free, as it will always choose what it thinks is best, and what it thinks is best wasn't itself chosen the moment before, but rather determined by its past history.

You appear to be saying that a will isn't free unless it is able to make decisions without developing the best compromise amongst all factors. I don't agree, since the freedom is embedded in the decision of what factors to include and how to weigh them. If you want an example of decisions made without weighing of factors you could just use a random number generator. Does a random number generator have free will? My view is that consciousness is required for will.

You say above that "...it ( a human organism) will always choose what it thinks is best...". Based on that rule, you should be able to devise a practical test, demonstration or scenario where I or someone else are unable to do anything other than what I/he/she think(s) is best. Can you come up with one? If there isn't one, does your view of will have any practical use or meaning?
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Messages In This Thread
Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 25, 2012 at 12:54 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by frankiej - September 25, 2012 at 12:56 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by jonb - September 25, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Whatkins - September 25, 2012 at 1:48 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 25, 2012 at 1:58 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by TaraJo - September 25, 2012 at 2:18 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Whatkins - September 25, 2012 at 2:08 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Mister Agenda - September 25, 2012 at 2:13 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by MysticKnight - September 25, 2012 at 2:17 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Anomalocaris - September 25, 2012 at 6:12 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reforged - September 25, 2012 at 2:33 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 25, 2012 at 3:20 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by TaraJo - September 25, 2012 at 5:04 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 25, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Faith No More - September 25, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reforged - September 25, 2012 at 7:15 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 25, 2012 at 9:45 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Whatkins - September 26, 2012 at 11:59 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Whateverist - September 26, 2012 at 8:49 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reforged - September 26, 2012 at 12:33 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 26, 2012 at 12:37 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 26, 2012 at 2:33 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Jackalope - September 26, 2012 at 3:26 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 26, 2012 at 9:04 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 26, 2012 at 11:35 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 26, 2012 at 11:58 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 27, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 27, 2012 at 12:06 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 27, 2012 at 5:50 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 27, 2012 at 9:09 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 28, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 28, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 28, 2012 at 10:18 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Jackalope - September 28, 2012 at 11:45 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - September 29, 2012 at 5:11 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Ben Davis - September 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by genkaus - September 26, 2012 at 11:10 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 26, 2012 at 4:25 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 26, 2012 at 5:32 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Erinome - September 25, 2012 at 4:05 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by liam - September 25, 2012 at 4:46 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Ben Davis - September 25, 2012 at 4:51 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 25, 2012 at 5:12 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by pocaracas - September 25, 2012 at 5:29 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 25, 2012 at 5:58 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 25, 2012 at 6:08 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 25, 2012 at 8:22 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 25, 2012 at 8:28 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reforged - September 25, 2012 at 9:09 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 25, 2012 at 9:12 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 26, 2012 at 12:02 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - September 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Erinome - September 28, 2012 at 6:09 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Whateverist - September 25, 2012 at 6:36 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by genkaus - September 26, 2012 at 6:24 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 26, 2012 at 12:28 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 26, 2012 at 8:56 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - September 28, 2012 at 10:29 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Whateverist - September 28, 2012 at 11:33 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Angrboda - September 29, 2012 at 12:07 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tempus - September 29, 2012 at 5:51 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Omni314 - September 29, 2012 at 11:25 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Whateverist - September 29, 2012 at 12:39 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by pocaracas - September 29, 2012 at 1:21 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 1, 2012 at 2:26 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by jonb - October 1, 2012 at 3:23 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Angrboda - October 1, 2012 at 12:27 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 1, 2012 at 3:00 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Angrboda - October 2, 2012 at 1:23 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Angrboda - October 1, 2012 at 1:57 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by The Grand Nudger - October 1, 2012 at 3:04 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 1, 2012 at 4:21 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - October 1, 2012 at 7:20 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by will_alltogether - October 1, 2012 at 7:32 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 1, 2012 at 8:17 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - October 1, 2012 at 10:04 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 1, 2012 at 10:16 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by IATIA - October 1, 2012 at 10:47 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 2, 2012 at 7:53 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Polaris - October 2, 2012 at 12:37 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - October 2, 2012 at 12:45 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by pocaracas - October 2, 2012 at 8:36 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 2, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by pocaracas - October 2, 2012 at 9:07 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 2, 2012 at 11:59 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2012 at 9:09 am
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2012 at 12:04 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Tino - October 2, 2012 at 12:29 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2012 at 12:30 pm
RE: Free Will: Fact or Fiction - by Darkstar - October 2, 2012 at 1:08 pm

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