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10 questions for your pastor
#57
RE: 10 questions for your pastor
(October 2, 2012 at 2:19 am)Godschild Wrote:


Ds Wrote:Okay, the worship part fails, but Lucifer knew the difference between good and evil. Keep in mind that Adam and Eve are less than 24 hour old and have no conscience. Here's a hypothetical scenario:

You have a two-year old child (about the same level of moral progression as the newborn Adam and Eve) and you tell him not to eat cookies, but you don't say why. Another person comes into the room and gives the kid a cookie, saying that its okay to eat cookies. The kid then eats the cookie. You return to find the cookie eaten and proceed to kick your child out of the house, after badly abusing him (childbirth pains, etc. Curses inflicted on Adam and Eve by god). You did this because you loved him, and he needed to learn his lesson for disobedience. Ethical? NO!

Yes Lucifer knew right from wrong and he had the knowledge of good and evil even before his fall from grace. I do not see what that has to do with Adam and Eve's fall other than Lucifer knowing what could possibly work on them. He actually tempted them with the very same reasoning that caused his fall ie. pride. Next, what makes you believe that Adam and Eve were less than 24 hours old, that is not biblical. Scripture says that God would come and walk with Adam and Eve in the cool of the evening, they spent time with God every day, and they did so as complete equals. We do not know how long they lived in the Garden, but because of what I stated above and other scriptures I believe it could have been thousands of years, we just do not know the exact amount of time. Next, one reason I stated all this is to show you that Adam and Eve were mature adults without the knowledge of good and evil, they had one commandment to live by, not to eat the fruit of the tree of good and evil. They did not have any idea as to what the tree represented, until Lucifer deceived them about what it meant to eat of that fruit. So your premise with the 2 year old doesn't work, the two year old doesn't have a mature mind, nor was the commandment in your premise given by God. God told Adam and Eve why they should not eat of the fruit, they would surely die. The day they did they died spiritually and several hundred years later the died physically. God did not lie to them, Lucifer did, they did not become as God, God is immortal, they became mortal, they gave up their immortality by disobeying God's one command.
Here's what separates Adam and Eve's situation from the 2 year old child, the 2 year old already has a sin nature, Adam and Eve did not until they chose to disobey God. Also the Garden was a sanctuary for man and God to meet, not just a place to live, God kicked them out because they violated a sacred place with sin, he was not going to allow them to live in a place of righteousness after they became creatures of sin.




Ds Wrote:If Jesus volunteerd, then why did he say: Mark 15:34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)? (The part in parenthesis was part of the original quote I found).

Because God the Father had turned His back upon Jesus, the Father was always with His Son, but when Jesus had all the sins of the world placed upon Him the Father had to turn away from Him, God the Father can not and will not be in the presents of sin. Christ knew this would happen when He volunteered, however as a man Jesus would naturally cry out. Many soldiers when they are dying cry out for their mothers, this is part of being human, and Jesus came to us as a man.

Ds Wrote:I also find it hard to believe that sacrificing Jesus was the only way. If god could not accomplish it in another way, the how is he all-powerful? Why couldn't we just accept god, why do we need a savior?

We need a savior to be redeemed from our sin, and without the shedding of blood there is no redemption, this is what God has set up from the beginning, so by this there is no other way. Again don't you think if there was another way God would have done so. Even Jesus when praying the night He was arrested said,"Father if there is any other way could you take this cup away from Me, but not My will but thy will be done." So Jesus knew the horrible thing He was getting ready to endure.
You know no matter what God had done to redeem us there would be those who would not want to accept it, they just do not want anything to do with God. For those of us who do accept what God has done to redeem us, we cherish it, because it cost Him so much and it was done for us even though we did not deserve His grace.
I mentioned above that God said that the shedding of blood was the only way for redemption of sin and that it was this way from the beginning. Well there is a reason for it and Adam and Eve's disobedience was the cause, when God found them hiding in the Garden they had said they were naked, understanding good and evil. God clothed them with animal skins, God had to kill animals and make clothing to cover their nakedness, in doing this blood was shed because of sin, the first deaths occurred because of sin and the innocent died first. The covering of Adam and Eve's nakedness with the death of innocent animals is representative of the covering of sin with blood from the innocent perfect Lamb of God, know you know exactly why Jesus had to give up His life, only innocent blood from the perfect Lamb could possibly save man.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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Messages In This Thread
10 questions for your pastor - by StewartP - September 6, 2008 at 1:03 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Pete - September 6, 2008 at 10:13 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Lucifer Morningstar - September 7, 2008 at 3:33 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by StewartP - September 7, 2008 at 4:09 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Pete - September 7, 2008 at 5:37 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Eilonnwy - September 8, 2008 at 5:15 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Pete - September 10, 2008 at 9:12 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by chatpilot - September 7, 2008 at 9:09 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Eilonnwy - September 7, 2008 at 4:49 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Meatball - September 7, 2008 at 5:47 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by FutureAndAHope - September 10, 2008 at 6:58 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Eilonnwy - September 10, 2008 at 9:16 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Fitzwilly - September 30, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 1, 2012 at 3:16 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Leafmold - September 11, 2008 at 2:12 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by solidsquid - September 11, 2008 at 3:27 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by FutureAndAHope - September 11, 2008 at 6:27 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Eilonnwy - September 11, 2008 at 9:46 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Jason Jarred - September 11, 2008 at 11:25 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Eilonnwy - September 12, 2008 at 9:32 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Ace Otana - September 12, 2008 at 11:48 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Tiberius - September 12, 2008 at 11:50 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Ace Otana - September 12, 2008 at 11:53 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darwinian - September 16, 2008 at 9:14 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Ace Otana - September 22, 2008 at 7:28 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by FutureAndAHope - September 16, 2008 at 7:52 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by allan175 - September 16, 2008 at 9:09 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Jason Jarred - September 16, 2008 at 10:02 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by solidsquid - September 16, 2008 at 11:05 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Tiberius - September 17, 2008 at 5:44 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Eilonnwy - September 17, 2008 at 7:10 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Edwardo Piet - September 22, 2008 at 6:33 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Ace Otana - September 22, 2008 at 7:59 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Ace Otana - September 22, 2008 at 8:08 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by FutureAndAHope - September 24, 2008 at 5:01 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Ace Otana - September 24, 2008 at 8:06 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by chatpilot - September 24, 2008 at 10:38 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darwinian - September 30, 2012 at 3:15 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Drich - September 30, 2012 at 7:21 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Kayenneh - September 30, 2012 at 7:43 pm
10 questions for your pastor - by LiakosVikernes - October 1, 2012 at 11:47 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Drich - October 1, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Jackalope - October 1, 2012 at 2:45 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 1, 2012 at 4:28 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 1, 2012 at 9:52 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 1, 2012 at 11:24 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 2, 2012 at 2:19 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 2, 2012 at 12:35 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 2, 2012 at 5:17 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 2, 2012 at 8:51 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 3, 2012 at 2:02 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Jaysyn - October 4, 2012 at 8:54 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 8, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 8, 2012 at 11:22 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 9, 2012 at 12:30 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by popeyespappy - October 9, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 9, 2012 at 12:48 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 9, 2012 at 1:00 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 9, 2012 at 1:13 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 1, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by downbeatplumb - October 1, 2012 at 1:42 pm
10 questions for your pastor - by LiakosVikernes - October 1, 2012 at 2:13 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Kayenneh - October 1, 2012 at 3:22 pm
10 questions for your pastor - by LiakosVikernes - October 1, 2012 at 4:51 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Angrboda - October 2, 2012 at 4:15 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2012 at 11:31 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 2, 2012 at 12:41 pm
10 questions for your pastor - by LiakosVikernes - October 3, 2012 at 3:45 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 3, 2012 at 11:50 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 4, 2012 at 3:27 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 4, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 4, 2012 at 12:22 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by pocaracas - October 3, 2012 at 11:59 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 4, 2012 at 12:58 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 4, 2012 at 11:53 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 4, 2012 at 4:18 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 4, 2012 at 9:27 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 4, 2012 at 9:25 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 8, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by pocaracas - October 8, 2012 at 6:01 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by KichigaiNeko - October 8, 2012 at 6:05 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 8, 2012 at 9:48 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 8, 2012 at 4:02 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by frankiej - October 8, 2012 at 4:16 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 8, 2012 at 4:34 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 9, 2012 at 12:14 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 9, 2012 at 12:28 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 9, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 9, 2012 at 1:34 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 9, 2012 at 2:06 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 9, 2012 at 10:49 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 10, 2012 at 12:23 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 10, 2012 at 11:43 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Godschild - October 10, 2012 at 3:14 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 10, 2012 at 4:06 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 9, 2012 at 12:36 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 9, 2012 at 2:13 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by FallentoReason - October 9, 2012 at 2:29 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Minimalist - October 9, 2012 at 10:55 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 9, 2012 at 11:50 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Faith No More - October 9, 2012 at 6:30 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 9, 2012 at 10:21 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 9, 2012 at 10:42 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 9, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by popeyespappy - October 10, 2012 at 12:07 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 12, 2012 at 2:29 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Faith No More - October 10, 2012 at 8:15 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2012 at 8:56 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 10, 2012 at 10:40 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Faith No More - October 12, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 12, 2012 at 3:58 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 12, 2012 at 8:00 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 12, 2012 at 8:05 pm
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 13, 2012 at 12:14 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by Darkstar - October 13, 2012 at 12:27 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by ronedee - October 13, 2012 at 12:32 am
RE: 10 questions for your pastor - by The Grand Nudger - October 14, 2012 at 2:01 pm

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