10 questions for your pastor

[Darkstar]

The greatest thing they know still is not God, did you really read what I stated, it seems that you did not by your response.

They knew of something greater than god?

Adam and Eve were created fully aware and knowing right from wrong, they had no learning curve to go through. Two year old children have miles to go, if mom and dad kicked them out of the house they could not survive. Adam and Eve were fully prepared to survive outside of the Garden.

Okay, the survival is different, but I still don't know how you say they knew right from wrong when they had no knowledge of good and evil.
You said earlier

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Knowing your disobeying has nothing to do with good and evil necessarily, small children will knowingly disobey their parents, you can't necessarily call that doing or have knowledge of doing evil.

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When the accurate moral comparison is small children, don't you think god overreacted?

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How can you say they did not know the difference between right and wrong, not having the knowledge of good and evil does not necessarily say they did not know the difference between right and wrong. I thought the idea of the 2 year old child knowing right from wrong, yet not understanding good and evil was understood as a correct idea, related to Adam and Eve. Gen. 3:3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden,... Eve says this to the serpent, Gen 2:16... "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." This is the commandment from God. God gave this commandment to them and they understand there would be consequences if they did not obey, thus knowing the difference between right and wrong.

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Does obeying to avoid punishment really constitute a conscience? The consequence was death, so it didn't matter if they knew what was 'wrong', they just didn't want to die.

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Lucifer did lie to them, they did die, Lucifer said they would not. Lucifer said they would be like God, they were punished by God, so how is it they were anything like God. God still lives they are dead, they come under God's judgement, God will never be judged by a superior being, they are sinners God is righteous, do I need to say more. Lucifer lied to them, working on their pride and they fell for his deception. As I said previously they died that every day, it was a spiritual death, the physical death came later.

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I believe that I made it clear that Lucifer said they would not surely die, not that they surely wouldn't. God said they would die on the day that they had eaten it, which did not happen. I don't know how you can say they died a 'spiritual' death by acquiring a conscience. They still had souls, didn't they? They 'knew' it was wrong because god arbitrarily told them. The only justification he gave was that they would die that very day. With the deterrent removed, and without any knowledge of good and evil, of course they would eat it.

God kicked them out of the Garden (sanctuary) and also punished (cursed) them for ruining the perfect creation, personally I believe they got off light, considering what God could have done.

What more could he have done? He cursed them, kicked them out of paradise, and opened the gates of hell to everyone. Everyone born before Jesus burned at least until Jesus's death, all for a single disobedience from people who had no knowledge of good and evil. I think he seriously overreacted... The best reason I can see for kicking them out (but not any of the other things) was the preservation of innocence. If they knew not of evil, they could not comprehend the difference between it and good. Lucifer gave them knowledge at the cost of innocence; isn't that what we all do nowadays anyway? (Although we live in an imperfect world, so it is required, whereas Eden wasn't the same.)

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God allowed Lucifer to tempt them because of love, like I said previously (are you sure you have read what I wrote) God wanted Adam and Eve to love Him through their obedience, that is to chose to obey His commandment over falling to Lucifer's deception. This is no different than what parents want from their children. Lucifer lost his love for God and all that goes with loving Him, and Lucifer wanted all of God's creation to suffer along with him.

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God let the devil himself decieve Adam and Eve because he loved them? They had no knowledge of good and evil, it couldn't have occured to them that he was supposed to be the bad guy. You use the word 'decieved'. If they were truly decieved, then they dis not know what they were doing. Look at their reactins to the snake's words, they are obviously profoundly naive and do not understand the difference between right and wrong in any more then a completely arbitrary way.

Ok, let's make this simpler, God will not associate with the sinful, does this clear up things. God's omnipresent, which means He can be in all places all the time if He chooses to.

I thought that everyone was sinful. Didn't Jesus associate with the sinful on occasion? (Not to join them is sinning, mind you)

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God never changes and because He knew before creation what His plan was He has never changed anything. An omniscient being will have the perfect plan from the beginning, God has never been surprised by anything anyone has ever done.

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So all of the terrible things that happen were meant to? God is responsible for the holocaust? Saying 'well his plan is so complex that is makes no sense...to a mortal' is kind of a cop out. If god's plan requires so much suffering, then he isn't very efficient, now is he?

You find the story hard to believe because an omniscient being foresaw the only plan for salvation that would satisfy His will. That does not make sense to me.

So now it isn't that god is inefficient; he deliberately takes a hard path with humanity because he feels like it.

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Now you're starting to state the sad questions of others, please can you do better than that. This is a tired old question most Christians are tired of answering. When Christ left heaven He gave up more than you or I could ever imagine. He lived in the glory of Heaven and was all powerful, when He left heaven He had to suffer through the same things sinful man did, Christ was perfect and did not deserve to suffer our lives. He also gave up all His powers, the miracles He did were through the Father's power. This analogy is not the best but should suffice, it would be like you giving up your life that you have now to live as an ant, your only purpose is to work to survive, no pleasures, no love, little if any rest, only a single minded purpose, work, work, work. Christ had to suffer death, when He should not had to, because of us, He should of never had to taste the horrors of death, especially the one he suffered. Christ's death was due to carrying all the burdens of our sins, our sinless God suffered a death that only we should have, we committed the crimes against God, and He has to pay for it so we can be redeemed. That's like a criminal going to court and found guilty and the judge has to do the time.

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Poor guy, he had to give up being omnipotent for a cosmological second. His early death was a blessing then, if it is suffering to simply be human. Wow, then we must really be martyrs; we're human our whole lives!

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Here's another one of those old quotes that make no reasonable sense, first off Adam and Eve did not grow a conscience, they sinned against God through disobedience, they understood what they had done when they ate the fruit and became knowledgeable of good and evil, God found them hiding from Him, this should tell you how much they regretted what they did, and just like kids they tried to blame others for their mistake. God the Father did not want His Son to be a martyr, being a martyr necessarily includes terrible suffering, God would have much rather had His creation to stay perfect. Man screwed that up royally, and God's love allowed for that very thing. What a sad lot we are.

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(bolding added)

You do realize you just admitted that they didn't know it was wrong until after the fact. We sure 'screwed that up royally' when two people who didn't know the difference between right and wrong were tricked into disobeying an arbitrary command.

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No one will ever suffer the death Christ did and only a foolish man would think so. Christ, as the man Jesus took all the sin past, present and future upon Himself, can you even imagine what that horror would be like, tell me what that kind of guilt would be like upon a person.
God did not need to kill those animals, He could have wiped Adam and Eve off the face of the earth. His love for them and future people is what brought this about, it is what had to happen. By the way poof, really, that sounds a bit childish. The sacrifice of the animals was a fore shadowing of what was to be, what had to be, the death of Christ to redeem man kind. Have you ever studied scriptures to find out what's in them or are you the follow the leader type and accept what ever any nonbeliever says whether it be true or not.

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So...he killed the animals to foreshadow the bloodletting that had to be? Remember what you said about it earlier?

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I mentioned above that God said that the shedding of blood was the only way for redemption of sin and that it was this way from the beginning. Well there is a reason for it and Adam and Eve's disobedience was the cause, when God found them hiding in the Garden they had said they were naked, understanding good and evil. God clothed them with animal skins, God had to kill animals and make clothing to cover their nakedness, in doing this blood was shed because of sin, the first deaths occurred because of sin and the innocent died first. The covering of Adam and Eve's nakedness with the death of innocent animals is representative of the covering of sin with blood from the innocent perfect Lamb of God, know you know exactly why Jesus had to give up His life, only innocent blood from the perfect Lamb could possibly save man.

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I believe that you have seriously contradicted yourself. In one passage you say that the killing is merely foreshadowing what was already destined to come, in the other you say it was the only reason for what was to come.

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There were many more things I brought up why did you stick with the questions and quotes that most nonbelievers do, are you not interested in being your own person, making your own decisions. Are you only interested in discrediting God or are you looking for truths in life.

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How am I not interested in being my own person? If I'm repeating things others have already said, then it is only because you are doing the same, and that a similar conversation have been had before.