RE: A pantheistic argument.
October 30, 2012 at 1:21 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2012 at 1:24 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 30, 2012 at 1:04 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: Okay then we'll assume that "god" and "deity" are completely interchangeable then, rather than "deity" being a particular definition of god. It's irrelevant anyway because it doesn't actually change my argument.We don't have to assume that, they are. So, you don't think that this changes your argument eh? You are a theist if you believe that there is at least one god - regardless of how you describe that god. It doesn't actually matter whether the universe is god, or whether or not god exists, only that you believe in at least one god.
I believe that the universe exists. So, if god is the universe I'm a theist. If god isn't the universe I'm an atheist because I don't believe in any other kinds of gods.
Quote:I'm not calling "that thing" (the universe in this case) a god. I'm calling god the universe. I just label it as "god" in one case and don't in the other. In both cases I'm simply believing in the universe. My beliefs are identical. So, since my beliefs are identical, and since atheism and theism is a difference of belief, there is no difference between my theism and atheism they're just different labels.The difference would be the presence of at least one god. Not what that god is or how you describe it.
Quote:No, I'm not saying the universe is god. I'm saying god is the universe.That which we call a rose.....again, it doesn't matter how you describe a god, only that you believe that a god exists. Your god is "the universe" some other guy might point to "that tree over there", another may say "the being described in the holy bible". It is not up to me to define what "god" is to others, but so long as there is a god present....you.... are not.... an atheist.
Quote:There is a difference in the labels but I already admitted to that, there is no difference in the belief and that is what I am saying, and that is what I'm explaining.There -is- a difference in the belief. Mainly that one believes in a god and the other does not.
Quote:I believe in god if god means the universe. If god means the universe then I also assume that you believe in god, correct?No, lol. You are free to describe or define the term god however you wish and profess belief in it all day long, I do not believe in god, and I do not call the universe god...so this isn't my problem.
Quote:Then I believe you have missed my logic. I have changed the labels but not the definitionThe definition of the words theist and atheist do not hinge on anything other than belief in a god. It's not about what that god is or how it's described.
Quote:because the fundamental difference in the definitions have been removedYou could only do this by removing "god"...which you have not done.
Quote:because they're both dependent upon a difference of belief.-in at least one god
Quote:If there is no difference of belief then there is no difference because that is the fundamental part of the definition required for there to be a difference.Which there is, you believe in at l;east one god, I do not.
Quote: Not if they are believing in the same thing as theists, i.e carrots.What? If someone believes in the same thing as theists they aren't theists? News to me.
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