RE: Why do you believe?
December 1, 2012 at 4:58 am
(This post was last modified: December 1, 2012 at 5:12 am by The truth.)
(December 1, 2012 at 3:47 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:(December 1, 2012 at 3:19 am)The truth Wrote: When I mean "took the entire roman empire in only a small amount of years!" I was referring to the religions of Rome. Christanity swept threw Rome like a wild fire in the first one hundred years with the gosple of Christ. Any historian can tell you that.
You say the witnesses can easily be legend but they can easily be real. Where's your proof for such a statements. atheist make statements like "there was no witnesses of Christ resurrection" but then when we give you witnesses you say there legend. You cant choose history. If they are witnesses they are witnesses. You might dont cnoose to believe it but its still history. The historical facts are the written new testament of the bible. And the church father's of the late and early second century.
These supposed eye witnesses accounts haven't been confirmed as history anymore than the accounts of aliens crashing landing in Roswell in 1947.
It hasn't been confirmed? The church fathers document? That's not confirmation?
And the supposed rapid growth of Christianity, assuming that were true, doesn't prove anything about the resurrection. Christian had just the right the combination of religious rules and promises to make it a success in the course of 400 years. Gentiles were already joining judaism in large numbers before Christianity rose. The only thing stopping a significant conversion to judaism was all of its strict laws such as dietary laws. When Christianity came around with what the gentiles liked about judaism but without those pesky rules, it sealed itself as a success in the long run. This doesn't prove its divinity anymore than the success of the iPhone proves Steve Jobs was God.
"Gentiles were already joining judaism in large numbers before Christianity rose."
That's not true. They may have excepted some of there rituals but joining Judaism in a large number? That's not true. youre reaching a little high on that one don't you think? Before chrisitanity arose the Jewish people were under rome's subjection. They wasn't going to give up there gods for such strict laws even you say that. Judaism requires serving only one god.
Why doesn't it prove anything about the ressurection? The church was established on Jesus Christ. He promised that the church would grow and it did. If christ was only a legend chrisitanity would have dwindled off way before the 4th century. Early Christians died for what they said they saw that early morining. If it were a lie that wouldn't have happened. Granted men die for there religion everyday but there is no one who would die, change there religion and cause there families to be tormented all on the bases of a lie. And that's what the early first Christians did.
(December 1, 2012 at 3:58 am)teaearlgreyhot Wrote:CAN I WRITE THIS EVEN CLEARER? history gives you eye witness accounts from men who gave there lives over to be burned. If this was a lie they wouldn't have done so. No one dies on the bases of lies. And besides because history reveals eye witnesses it is up to you to refute it not me. You claim that these historical facts are not reliable prove it. But you can't. So you keep asking me to do it. When I've already stated the historical facts. Again it is a fact that there were eye witness in history disprove it. The decsiples were eye witnesses and died for what they believed. We know that the church fathers knew the disciples personally and stated there own testament of the truth. That's in history. Check the archives! Check the historians! We know this. What? You're going to ask me to prove it again? I've stated historical facts you state yours! Come atheist you can do better(December 1, 2012 at 3:47 am)The truth Wrote: ...
Your post is only opinion. If if if if.... These are all opinions. No detective went back in time to refute the five hundred witnesses so this statement is only a theory based on opinions(I get your since of humor). Please atheist show me facts that chrisitanity is false. Its proven that history shows us a empty tomb. Its proven that they never found christ body. Please people make this cite interesting. keep your if's to your self!
Paul didn't just see a vision did you read the story? The men next to him also experienced this visitation. They hurd the voice of Christ. Illusions does not allow three people at the same time to here the same exact vey words. It often effects the eyes not the ears.
These aren't opinions. They're arguments! You're suppose to address them!
Show that these accounts are actual history and not just the likes of Mother Goose or Hanzel and Gretal. We never observe proven supernatural events today. We have thousands accounts spanning all of human history of gods waging war, dragons, ghosts, ufos, but we never see evidence for them. They can't possibly be all true.
When you make a claim that a miraculous event occurred such as Jesus resurrected or Paul and a few others saw a vision of Christ, you cannot just use their word that those things really happened. You have to bring up a huge mountain of solid evidence to provide adequate proof that such things occurred because in everyday experience, those things never occur. These are not ordinary events.
