Jesus, Least Fit Moral Judge

[Drich]

Your interpretation is pretty clear based on your posts. Murder is not murder, so long as god says it's okay. Need I say more?

Welcome to the conversation. Now may I suggest that you ask: When did God say it was ok to kill? To which I will answer: In Old Testament times he gave specific kill orders against a given people, and He has Given authority of life and death to Goverments in modern times.. This means if a goverment needs to wage war then it is permitted. It also means if the goverment wishes to empower it's citizens with the authority to defend themselves, family, other people or even properity then under those conditions it is also ok to kill.

You did not say "Based under the New covenant", you said, "What makes killing a sin is whether or nor God sanctioned the death or if someone took it upon themselves to kill outside of Gods' expressed will."

Which is a blanket statement that is true in either convenat.

You can't just go revising the stipulations of your irrational statements to make them rational. If you were actually referring to the old testament law, you would've put it in there. Don't get all self righteous because I actually took what you said literally as being what you believe.

You took what I said and changed it to fit your arguement. My statement was true as orginally stated.

And as for murder, you seem to have made up your own definition of it. According to the bible, a murder must be intentional and premeditated--spilling of innocent blood is considered wrong. Just because god sanctions a murder, does not mean it is not murder.

Ok, ok so let me get this straight, My biblical defination is wrong. even though it is the one that accounts for the command given to Moses, yet justifies the Kill orders also given to Moses.

But your personal defination one that only looks at the command given to moses, and ignores the rest and chocks up the death and destruction God ordered up to 'savage people.' Yeah, I think I will stick with the bible on that one.

I come to this conclusion not because I disagree with the belief that god is the arbiter of morality thus above judgement--but because he himself claims to have murdered countless individuals who by his own definition: were innocent. Contradictions abound, and give me reason to doubt his infallability, and thus his reality. Hence, without this fake being you wrongly consider to be omnipotent and thus infallable: murder is murder. Black is black. Life isn't grey, and you aren't a risk should you ever do acquire "voices" in your head. By supporting, worshipping, praising and promoting an undeserving, murderous, empirical God, believers' normal moral and legal inhibitors are erased.

so.. If God does not decide what murder is, then who does? You? If you decide then may I ask when is it ok to kill? What if I broke into your home and raped you family? What if this was a weekly event? in your 'judgement' would i deserve to die? If so then what makes your judgement any more valid than God's?

Example of this contradiction: Just ask Jericho, Canaanites, every first born of Egypt, and every innocent child, born or unborn--who endured the flood.

It's only a contratiction under your defination of Murder. If you throw away your broken understanding where murder is never ok unless you say it is, and give the power back to God to perside over life and death then the death of those children are no longer murder.

What happens when two adversaries both have god on their side?

Then no matter the outcome God's will is accomplished. Is it not foolish to think that just because one is in the will of God the out come of a situation will always be favoriable?

I'm not confused as to what the bible says about god. It says god is love. (1 John 4:7-11)
If god is love, then god is love. That's what it says, that's what it says.
It also says that, "greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13 NIV). Seeing as how Jesus is God, and Jesus did just that--then there is no greater love for man, than Gods'. Based on John 3:16 and Romans 5:8, this love is unconditional. We are all born into sin, thus you can't say that god doesn't love me because I don't love him. He loves me and he loves you, period. I am his creation, he loves himself and everything he creates thus he must love me. If he didn't love humanity, he wouldn't have "sacrificed" himself then explained that that is the greatest love there is.

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Read those passages again 1 John4 John is speaking to His followers the believers or 'church' He established. In other words people who have accepted Christ. Why is this important Look at John 3:16 God so loved the word that He gave his only son, THAT WHO SO EVER BELIEVES IN HIM Should Not Parrish...

Do you see the condition? "That who so ever believes" is a condition on the 'love' or Agape God offers. God's love does not extend beyong those who accept His Son. Which makes the Love He offers Very Conditional

Again in romans 5 Paul is speaking to a specific group of people. Those people All have one thing in common. They met the conditions of God's love. So everything He said was true for them.

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How can we choose, if so many people claim their god is the one true god? (and they're all different gods)
How can we chose when they all stink of man-made myth?
How can we choose, when the single piece of information about your god is a book written by a lot of people long ago and who knows what their intentions were? (the same goes for the other gods)

Your grand failure is in understanding the big picture that atheists see.
This is not about either believe in your god or nothing. This is about either believe in this god, that god, the other god, etc, etc, etc or nothing.
And believe is the operative word here.
-- to Believe = accept as an accurate description of reality without proof.
-Believe in other people's claims.
-Believe in whatever is written in a book.
-Or not.

But this is taking us away from this thread's subject....

This is something that I have said from the beginning. If you seek proof of God A/S/K and He will provide it to you specifically. He will give you exactly what you need to establish faith and maintain it. All He asks in return is the obeidance to follow the path to proof He has set before you.

Aye, that much is true.... you present what is written, with a little interpretation thrown in to help us 'good' people understand it differently from its literal meaning.

You do not have because you do not ask. If you ask a question that demands a bible verse I will provide it. If you do not understand how that verse applies it is up to you to ask how it applies. If you do not ask, but instead provide an arguement what recourse do I have but to respond to what is written in either case?

Whatever your god did and made it into the book was obviously justified.
It couldn't possibly have been an a posteriori made up excuse for one people to take over a piece of land.... no, that would be too commonplace.
The winners never exaggerate when they write accounts of their own victories. They never factor in the help they got from their favorite deity, when they write about it... no, they're always completely impartial and independent in their writings.... aren't they? (I think Min is the best person to answer this, given his knowledge of history)

you and minnie do understand that 2/3's of the accounts written about in the bible were israel's defeats and occupations right? (Meaning they were the victors Most of the time.)

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Esquilax & missluckie26. Our two new heavyweights

Yes welcome to AF

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[quote='Drich' pid='385925' dateline='1358173149']

I know what it means but because you did not provide something a little more real to go on other than your word, it was rightfully dismissed.

Biblical scholars have weeded out the forgeries from the authentic ones.

This isn't secret knowledge Drich. Don't make this harder than what it is.

On my word I could say the same thing with the oppsite result. If you make a statement it is up to you to defend it when challanged. You sir, have been challenged. Otherwise know your statement has been rightfully dismissed.