Jesus, Least Fit Moral Judge

[Esquilax]

One reads his bible.

So what's your criteria? What in the bible would be sufficient for you to murder someone? I guess what I'm asking is, you obviously don't need to find a specific "go here on this day and kill X" message, as there aren't any, so what classifies as a kill order in your book?

In the past, before they had the benfit or perspective of a completed bible God sent men like Elijah, or Moses. They carried the word and works of God and spoke to His people.
Meaning the people knew these men were prophets because of the works they did in God's name.

That's interesting, because below you say you don't deal in works for your morality. But also, how do you know the bible is completed now? I mean, the Mormon faith developed a new biblical work centuries after the New Testament; what made you pick the cutoff point you did?

When would that be? The Modern era?

Pretty much. Why does god not move through revelation the way he used to, now that we could verifiably check that out?

Which are agree upon by the majority of the people living with in the soceity... (AKA popular VOTE)

Otherwise if it was as you said and we all just came to this 'morality' because it was what was best for the propagation of soceity, then all soceities would have come to relitivly the same 'morality.' They haven't have they? For it seems those in the west have a different idea of 'morality' than those in the mid east and far east.

Because morality varies from culture to culture from even generation to generation with in those cultures, morality can be defined as the standard in which a given soceity collectivly agrees to live under as an attempt to live 'righteously.' Now follow me here; Because this 'rightous living' is not God's Stated Righteousness, but a personal sense of righteousness, Christ rightly identified it as "Self Righteousness."

I'm actually happy you brought this up. Because, if you look, most societies have developed a basically similar system of morality. Look out, across the board: murder is frowned upon. Rape is frowned upon. Theft is frowned upon. There's no society that looks upon these things as a moral good, and any society that allows murder or rape invariably does it on religious, not secular, grounds. The fact that there are slight variations do not discredit my beliefs about this. If you wish to persist in arguing that they do, I would remind you that your religion can't agree on much either, hence the numerous denominations. So, mutually assured destruction.

Making ANY version of Morality (Not God's Righteousness or God's perfect Standard) self righteous standard. So no matter where you believe your high and mighty morality comes from, it still falls far short of where it is supposed to be.

You don't have a morality, let alone one that's above mine. Actions are either moral or immoral, and that doesn't change. That's what objective means. If murder becomes moral if sanctioned by god, then by definition you are the one with the subjective moral system, not me.

My, 'standards' are not based off of works. As such I do not measure myself against what other men can see and judge. which allows me to not appeal to others to define who I am as a person. For that I turn to God. If you are happy with washing the outside of your cup (Keeping clean only what other men can see while the interrior festers) as the pharasees did, then that is between you and God.

So the actions don't matter, only belief. Good atheist folks go to hell, yet blood soaked, tyrannical christians go to heaven, so long as god was on their side. You really are immoral.

God laid out a standard. In this case you shall not Murder. Murder is the unsanctioned taking of life. It is Never ok to Murder. If God gives a Kill order then the taking of life is Sanctioned. Nothing Changes. For even if God gives a kill order against a specific people (As He has only done in OT times.) then it is still not ok to Murder. For you see the focous is off of the act of taking of life and placed on obediance to God. Nothing has changed.

"Murder is bad, except when it's not bad!"

Makes no sense.

So, if you had an oppertunity to kill/murder little baby hitler, little baby stallin, and or little baby Hirito you would pass, and doom 100 million people to a terriable death?
Mighty 'moral' of you.

That's a much more complex moral issue than I'm willing to deal with here, since it'd derail the thread. I honestly don't know whether I would or wouldn't, but even if I did, I'd still consider it a bad deed. Possibly for the greater good, but I'd absolutely hold myself morally accountable for every bit of it, and accept my just punishment for doing so. You, on the other hand, have set up a system in which it's not necessarily wrong to murder people, so I have to ask: why do you think my supposed unwillingness to kill a baby (or my ability to feel bad if I did) is somehow proof that I'm immoral?

every last one.

I don't think you would. I think for all your posturing, you're more moral than that, and you're more moral than your god. It's just sad that you're willing to pretend otherwise.

If I redefined your usage of a term, that was me telling you you are using the popular defination and not one consistant with how the biblical use if framed.

Still could have stood to answer the question rather than solely providing an unasked for definition. I don't take your bible for toilet paper, so I could care less what it defines words as.

...And everyone else looking to hold someone accountable to their actions.
Accountablity, not just used by thugs. ;P

It's not an issue of accountability, because the terms aren't equal. God can't just do whatever he wants with us, and he can't expect automatic obeisance either. I don't care what you think, that's immoral, it makes him a tyrant. What am I, a good man who's never hurt anyone, never stolen anything, loves his fiancee and plans to start a family with her, done that I need to be held accountable for? Just my nonbelief? And that's worth an eternity in hell? Come on.

Everything, but at the same time nothing. Or is my usage of the word "but" some how proof? what about thugs? Accountablity? I used all of those words and I fail to see how the 'prove' what I asked you to prove.

Forest for the trees, Drich. Forest for the trees...

so.. If God does not decide what murder is, then who does? You? If you decide then may I ask when is it ok to kill? What if I broke into your home and raped you family? What if this was a weekly event? in your 'judgement' would i deserve to die? If so then what makes your judgement any more valid than God's?

Hey, dude, that's my fiancee you're talking to. Cool it with the rape talk, that's creepy.

But I think her point was that murder is never justified, no matter what your god says. Which I would agree with.