Christ's birthday

[Edwardo Piet]

chatpilot: I believe I have already explained in a past post to you that you can't believe that murder is wrong and at the same time think there is no God. You cant say God is evil by your standards since you cant believe in any real morality.

Nonsense... yes you can - here I go:

"God is evil by my standards"...

There are things I think are immoral, and there are things I think are moral. I judge with my own empathy (who's elses am I supposed to judge with?!)... and I don't think that the God described in the Bible is moral. Of course I can think that, and I do.

...

There is evidence that I exist. And from my perspective the evidence is completely self-evident... God on the other hand......

Even if I were to believe in God and try and follow his morals in the Bible, I'd still be doing it through my own subjective moral filter... how could I and would I, not?

Atheists have proven on here that their morality is socioculturally influenced[...]

Sociocultural influenced is not the same as "not any real morality" as Solarwave incorrectly describes it. Morals are morals. Even if morality was objective, it would still be filtered through our own subjectivity. How could it or would it, not?

[...]
For these reasons, I think the existence of the universe and life is evidence for the existence of God.

So basically you are just giving the argument from design?

Well aside from the fact evolution completely refutes that, since you won't accept evolution - I'll give you another argument:

If the universe is complex, as you say, and the simplest life is even more complex, as you say... then how does God make it any less complex? If God is to be there from the beginning... then doesn't that just complicate things further? How does postulating God - something else to explain -...help?

If life and the universe requires an explanation... why doesn't God? If God can be there from the beginning.. why can't they? Or rather, why can't whatever started off the big bang be there form the beginning... without the extra addition of a superintelligent deity, "God", to create it all from the outset?

Why the special pleading for God? If you are simply to define it so you can say "God's whole purpose is to be there from the beginning... he doesn't need an explanation..." why can't you do the same for say, a big bang singularity, or the laws of physics, etc? Why postulate God [i]in addition[/i?] - you are only adding an even more complex thing to explain! it complicates things further, does it not? Special pleading alert on your part, I say.

Saerules, EVF, and Craveman I commend you all for having the patience of Job with our xtian friends.[...]

Thank you very much CP.

EvF