Christ's birthday

[rjh4 is back]

So basically you are just giving the argument from design?

Well aside from the fact evolution completely refutes that, since you won't accept evolution - I'll give you another argument:

If the universe is complex, as you say, and the simplest life is even more complex, as you say... then how does God make it any less complex? If God is to be there from the beginning... then doesn't that just complicate things further? How does postulating God - something else to explain -...help?

If life and the universe requires an explanation... why doesn't God? If God can be there from the beginning.. why can't they? Or rather, why can't whatever started off the big bang be there form the beginning... without the extra addition of a superintelligent deity, "God", to create it all from the outset?

Why the special pleading for God? If you are simply to define it so you can say "God's whole purpose is to be there from the beginning... he doesn't need an explanation..." why can't you do the same for say, a big bang singularity, or the laws of physics, etc? Why postulate God [i]in addition[/i?] - you are only adding an even more complex thing to explain! it complicates things further, does it not? Special pleading alert on your part, I say.

First, you are absolutely wrong when you say that evolution refutes the arguments I made. That is way too simplistic. The fact is, evolution (common descent) takes the first life form, whatever it was, as axiomatic. Common descent does not explain how the first life form came to be. You may then point to abiogenesis, but even that fails to explain where the matter/energy came from. Even the big bang singularity I don't think explains where the energy/matter came from. So explain to me EvF, where did the energy/matter for the big bang come from? Did it always exist? Was it formed out of nothing? Then, please go on to explain to me how energy and matter come together to produce logic, which is not matter or energy? Or is logic merely manmade also?

Relative to special pleading on my part, I seem to have read that such is not really special pleading. But I don't feel like looking that argument up or even arguing it here. Suffice it to say that special pleading or not, I think that holding that God exists and the Bible as the word of God explains much more and is more consistent with reality than anything you can come up with as a world view. In fact, once you answer the questions above (if you can), we may find out that your whole worldview is really incoherent to begin with.