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No, it is the same. I can verify religious experience, but you cannot. You are just speaking for yourself. But instead of feeling as if you are my spiritual inferior, you claim to know more than I do.
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Are YOU claiming that YOU can VERIFY the religious experience of another?
On what basis are YOU doing so.
WHat experiments are YOU repeating - with what written and verified results? WHere are the tables of data - and the actual methods used.?
Religious claims do not come with any SUPPORTING documentation.
TO claim that anyone is YOUR spiritual inferior is NONSENSE.
However - I will give you a chance to prove me wrong
EVERY verifiable study of prayer - using a representative sampling of the population (IE - thousands of people) - has shown that prayer has no result beyond chance. THere has been NO scientific study of prayer - published in a recognized peer reviewed scientific journal that has ever shown it to be of use.
YOU cannot claim that they are biased - since if the study actually showed that prayer worked - and the peer review showed proper procedures - it would be published. Science does not take sides against reality.
So - let us set up a scenario
It is said - in the bible - in several places - that anything YOU ask in prayer - you will receive. WHile I have heard lots of people claim that what you ask must be the will of god - that is NOT in the bible. ANd it inherently established that prayer is worthless anyway.
However - let us set up a test of prayer - that would fit the bill on both issues
1 - THE test would have to be of the magnitude that would require DIVINE intervention and cannot be explained just by chance
2 - THE test would need to be obvious - not subject to the "interpretation" of either side.
3 - To overcome the "God's will" objection - we will use a test that would HAVE TO BE the will of the "good" god.
4 - NO special claiming like - god is mysterious or works in mysterious ways.
We know that Newborn Babies and very young children are not capable of sinning - since they are not yet to the age of reason and responsibility. While there are objections to the age - different for different children - we CAN agree that children UNDER age ONE are not able to sin. So - they cannot do anything for which they would deserve to be punished from god.
Pray that ALL children under age ONE - get enough nourishment that NONE die of starvation.
THAT MUST be your god's will - after all - the alternative is that it is gods will for children to starve to death! And all of them are innocents. IF you claim that it is NOT god's will - why praise a god that wants children to die of starvation?
Now - that provides for the magnitude(Today - only a claimed divinity could pull that off) - and even allows for a claim of god's will!
I'll bet YOU argue against the test.
No, it is the same. I can verify religious experience, but you cannot. You are just speaking for yourself. But instead of feeling as if you are my spiritual inferior, you claim to know more than I do.
------
Are YOU claiming that YOU can VERIFY the religious experience of another?
On what basis are YOU doing so.
WHat experiments are YOU repeating - with what written and verified results? WHere are the tables of data - and the actual methods used.?
Religious claims do not come with any SUPPORTING documentation.
TO claim that anyone is YOUR spiritual inferior is NONSENSE.
However - I will give you a chance to prove me wrong
EVERY verifiable study of prayer - using a representative sampling of the population (IE - thousands of people) - has shown that prayer has no result beyond chance. THere has been NO scientific study of prayer - published in a recognized peer reviewed scientific journal that has ever shown it to be of use.
YOU cannot claim that they are biased - since if the study actually showed that prayer worked - and the peer review showed proper procedures - it would be published. Science does not take sides against reality.
So - let us set up a scenario
It is said - in the bible - in several places - that anything YOU ask in prayer - you will receive. WHile I have heard lots of people claim that what you ask must be the will of god - that is NOT in the bible. ANd it inherently established that prayer is worthless anyway.
However - let us set up a test of prayer - that would fit the bill on both issues
1 - THE test would have to be of the magnitude that would require DIVINE intervention and cannot be explained just by chance
2 - THE test would need to be obvious - not subject to the "interpretation" of either side.
3 - To overcome the "God's will" objection - we will use a test that would HAVE TO BE the will of the "good" god.
4 - NO special claiming like - god is mysterious or works in mysterious ways.
We know that Newborn Babies and very young children are not capable of sinning - since they are not yet to the age of reason and responsibility. While there are objections to the age - different for different children - we CAN agree that children UNDER age ONE are not able to sin. So - they cannot do anything for which they would deserve to be punished from god.
Pray that ALL children under age ONE - get enough nourishment that NONE die of starvation.
THAT MUST be your god's will - after all - the alternative is that it is gods will for children to starve to death! And all of them are innocents. IF you claim that it is NOT god's will - why praise a god that wants children to die of starvation?
Now - that provides for the magnitude(Today - only a claimed divinity could pull that off) - and even allows for a claim of god's will!
I'll bet YOU argue against the test.
