(March 12, 2013 at 3:06 pm)Darkstar Wrote:(March 12, 2013 at 2:57 pm)jstrodel Wrote: But if you consider that nearly every society in history from Jews (with Hasidic mysticism) to Christians (with the Catholics and charismatic mystics) to Muslims (they have their own mystical tradition) to Hindu's (a variety of mystical traditions) and Buddhists (also emphasize the supernatural) and animists, wicca, satanism and various other groups, shamans, has had some sort of tradition of the spiritual world.
So...the testominies of superstitious ancient people who had no/minimal understanding of science...are now valid? If so many people knew these things, wouldn't it be public knowledge by now?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/m...paranormal
The bigger problem with these "testimonies" is not that they MIGHT have existed - but what they actually were.
In the Past - and in the present - people often claimed that things they did not understand to be from the "hand of god". Today - we have lots of readily available logical and scientific explanations for events that would have been "testimonies" in the past.
Even today - when people make a claim - some religions do investigate the claims = and most turn out not to be true. THe first thing to ask is - What happened - WHat did you see - Who did YOU tell it to - WHEN did you report it - and WHen you reported it to authorities - what the investigation result was.
Example - it has already been proven that the testimony of people who go through so called "near death experiences" are largely of no use. THe problem is - in virtually every case - the person sees what his belief system says he would see. So - you see Allah if you are Muslim - and christ if you are christian - etc. So - it is just a trick of the mind.
IF EVERYONE who had such experiences came back with the SAME or VERY SIMILAR stories - that might be different.
And that fact that SO MANY people have had such testimonies that support their personal beliefs - points to the fact that it is self induced - and not the result of an outside reality.
So- the fact that so many people over the years - from so many different religions and beliefs - many of which are considered MYTH AND LEGEND today - have testified to things is actually proof that it is NOT TRUE - the opposite of what the theist here is claiming