What Sacrifice ?

[Tex]

Here is my prediction: You are making a willful choice for hell because you have heard the word of god and chose not to believe it. Therefore, you have chosen not to accept god which is the same as choosing to go to hell.

Very close, but no cigar.

Please, don't tell me what I would or wouldn't dismiss. It's a pet-peeve of mine.

Sorry about that. I got a more Rhythm-like impression from you at first. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Yes, we are assuming Christianity, but that doesn't explain how someone who doesn't believe is making a willful choice to go to hell. I am actually interested in your answer.

The Christian word, "belief" or "faith" today means either emotional response toward God or knowledge of existence of God. I hold to none of these. Emotions are bodily and can be caused by all sorts of opiates. This is not faith. Knowledge does not grant faith either. You don't have more faith because you know more about Jesus or have the correct belief about doctrine. All saved are equally saved. This, too, is not faith. Faith is the trust in God, and you only need "a mustard seed's" worth to make use of it. This is what saves. Not knowledge. Not how loud you can sing.

You can believe that there is no God here and still be saved. You can believe homosexuality isn't a sin and still be saved. You can have all of these beliefs, and, even if wrong, that's not enough to keep you out of heaven. What does is pride/stubbornness. Any tiny bit of "I know better" or "That isn't my way of life" or "I deserve this" is sin, but more importantly is they won't let go of the sin. Instead, the sin has become their identity. The sin is eternal, and that is why there is "eternal damnation". It isn't because God forces it, but the person like's their sin more than God. God allows this, and gives them a place to be. This place is called "hell" not because God tortures them in fire and flames and laughs as he's doing it, but because God's way is best, and no one here lives God's way.

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I'm not actually doing that. I promise. I'm actually talking about other religions. I'm literally saying they do not claim our God to exist, and we claim their Gods don't exist. I'm not talking about atheists in the least bit. You don't believe our God exists either.

Really??

You have a God in the same way that you have a father..

Then what is that? Since you were addressing an atheist, I am guessing you were addressing an atheist.

This isn't even a roundabout way of hinting that we know god exists but refuse to accept it. It is outright saying it. Your position is indefensible so stop trying to defend it.

And stop telling us what we believe.

Ugh, not even close to what I was talking about.

"you have a God in the same way you have a father" does not mean "Baalzebutt has a God, he just doesn't know it". I was speaking about possession. No one "has" a God. But, we also use "have" a father. I thought that's what you were talking about in posts past. That post was about how people "have" gods.

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The Docetists, Manicheans, Sabellians, Gnostics, Arians, and all the other heresies were not held by those with education.

More to the point, they were not held by those with power and money and the means to inflict mass murder on their competitors.

Believe what you'd like, Ryan.

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The Docetists, Manicheans, Sabellians, Gnostics, Arians, and all the other heresies were not held by those with education.

Oh, please...cut the fucking shit, will you. They were exterminated by your god-fearing xtians and their writings destroyed...except for Nag Hamadi which miraculously survived so that we all now know what a bunch of fucking liars the orthodox xtians were.

Yeah...if I want to see what any particular group thinks I will instantly choose the writings of the group which exterminated them. Get real.

Totally what happened. You are so smart. I wish I was as smart as you. You know so much. I am so jealous of your ability to reason. Most of all, I'm amazed at your ability to judge things objectively.

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...that has no physical evidence...

Am I supposed to shoot two gold atoms at each other and magically show you what you need to own for salvation? Salvation is not physical.

why is it that the holy book essentially has accounts of those miracles?

It has account of some. Those aren't all. Some don't happen to the Jews. Some aren't cool enough to record.

Hundreds of thousands of years ago, mankind knew nothing about the christian god.
How did it work with them?

The same way I have been describing. There are transcendentals that God literally is. Really, it's not that hard. Cain murdered his brother, Abel, out of jealousy. Cain was punished for this. However, no rule had been given that says, "Do not murder". That's because the rules don't need to be given. Equally, they don't have to "know" the Christian God directly. He is indirectly known by those who look.

What makes your so real, given that all we see it working with is people's faith?

Historical basis and logically coherency.