Christ's birthday

[Violet]

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Evidence is completely subjective. That which a scientist considers evidence is a far cry from the idiocy that the faithful accept as evidence.

Don't we discuss this enough? There is no absence of faith in belief... only degrees of faith a person needs to believe.

I make a distinction between 'trust', for instance, and 'faith' though...

If there is a lack of evidence then the belief is 'faith'. Just because evidence is, obviously, subjective, doesn't mean that 'faith' does not have the connotations of irrationality that it does.

The fact that evidence is subjective and, say, Science does not claim to know the absolute when it cannot, it doesn't mean that scientists beliefs are faith-based. The fact that doubt is left open does not mean that our belief is not based on evidence. To say that all belief requires a level of faith is, in my mind, claiming that no belief is based on evidence. Because, how I understand it, having faith = not having evidence.

I understand that there must be 'trust' or 'belief' in evidence... but that is different to faith. The words 'trust', and 'faith', for instance, are not identical by definition.

With or without evidence, there can be trust... but there, by definition (at least how I understand it), cannot be evidence if you "have faith", for faith is belief without evidence.

So, the claim that anyone can have faith in evidence, I understand to be an oxymoronic claim.

EvF So since faith is blind, then "blind faith" is just redundant right? Heard that in a couple places....

Exactly.

Unless the term is out of context, in which case it's perhaps better to specify the 'blind'. Since the term 'faith' has other meanings too of course... (like as in 'faithful').

EvF

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I actually contend the point that faith is anything different from trust, confidence, belief, assertion, or acceptance.

Faith |fāθ|
noun
1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something

As you can see, faith means fully trusting.

trust |trəst|
noun
1 firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something

Trust means a firm belief in <insert attribute>. (Ie, i trust the computer not to crash on me. Interchangeable with I have faith that the computer will not crash on me)

belief |biˈlēf|
noun
1 an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists

A belief is accepting that something is true (which takes trust, see having faith)

acceptance |akˈseptəns|
noun
3 agreement with or belief in an idea, opinion, or explanation

Acceptance under the relevant definition is simply believing (aka having faith in) something.

So as I've made my point before: asserting anything to be true leads to circular faith. We simply cannot function without believing what we think to be true (is true)... even believing that we can say. We simply have to take these things on faith. Faith as we commonly use it is in reference to those individuals with a lot of faith... but to exclusively use that definition is like saying that only the most extreme of the muslims are really muslims.