RE: Four questions for Christians
June 21, 2013 at 3:41 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm by Consilius.)
On the Tenth Plague:
You see Exodus 12:29 and say 'God is evil.' I, personally, decided to do more research on the subject, and have more answers.
First of all, Egypt had supposedly killed many more Hebrew boys than God killed Egyptians. He killed ALL males in Hebrew households, or at least most of them. He did this for a span of about 80 YEARS. It could have for been a single day, and the tally would STILL be higher. Actions are reciprocated back on the offender under God's 'eye for an eye' and 'tooth for a tooth' policy. This policy could be found in Confucianism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Greco-Roman and, yes, Egyptian literature. "The Teaching of Ankhsheshonqy".
Pharaoh caused all ten of the Plagues by refusing to let Israel go. He had firsthand knowledge of all the Plagues beforehand, and consented to their execution. Now we come upon the issue of 'God hardened his heart'.
In Greek and Hebrew, E.W. Bullinger noticed that they at times use active verbs to express an agents' design or attempt to do something. In Jeremiah 4:10 and Ezekiel 14:9, God did not 'decieve' anyone, as would be contrary to his nature, but allowed them to be decieved. Deuteronomy 26:68 originally meant "you shall be sold," but there is no buyer, because it means that "you will be allowed to or intend to be sold". Therefore, 'God hardened his heart' coould mean that 'God allowed his heart to harden.' Notice how the Exodus says Pharaoh hardened his own heart in many cases (8:15,32; 9:35)
Yet another interpretation of Exodus 7:3 is that it is a metonym. A metonym goes like this: "I am reading Shakespeare." You are not reading Shakespeare, but his particular works. Someone or something is said to have done something when an attribute of what they said actually did it. John 4:1-2. Jesus did not baptize people, his teachings caused them to be baptized. 1 Kings 22:52. Jeroboam didn't force people to sin, his actions did. Acts 16:14. God didn't open Lydia's heart, the words of his servant, Paul, did. Exodus 7:3. God didn't harden Pharaoh's heart: the words of his servant, Moses, did.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconten...ticle=1205
So we can say that Pharaoh willingfully caused the Ten Plagues to ravage his people. But, apparently, the Egyptians weren't so innocent either. Exodus 10:1, 14:17, and 1 Samuel 6:6 state that the Egyptians were just as bad as their Pharaoh. So that removes the innocence of pretty much everyone, except the kids.
In ancient society, in Egypt as well as Babylonia and Israel, children were punished for the sins of their parents. This punishment has nothing to do with sin being 'transferred' to other people. The firstborn son of a parent was an essential family member. First-born males recieved inheritance, could protect aging parents, and could perpetuate the family name, like last names allow them to do today. The loss was a judgement on the parents, and not God getting revenge on kids.
Also, there is an age of accountability at around 7-9. So, if we have firstborn males of hardened hearts dying after that age, they would have been accountable for their sins. Anyone who died before it would have gone to heaven, or, as the Catholics like to call it, 'limbo'. So we are left with the kids who died before their 8th birthday.
These particular kids were not punished, because that was not the intention. All that was needed from them was that their souls be absent from their bodies to produce the desired effect. Also, who's to say that their souls were not simply taken from their bodies during sleep? It was midnight, and I don't think that spiritual beings can walk around with bronze swords to hack the heads off about 69,000 kids in 8 hours.
http://christianthinktank.com/killheir.html
Note that God isn't simply siding with the Israelites. The entire Book of Judges is about God letting in foreign nations to conquer his own people. But God is only partial in the sense that he sides with the oppressed and works with them against the powerful. God isn't getting back at people, but judging them for their offenses and punishing them justly, despite what he feels for either side. Luke 19:41-43.
The Earth looks flat, but it is round. The Bible looks unsettling, but if you ask, you will eventually find someone who can answer.
That person may not necessarily be me. I'm just a Christian who THINKS he's found an answer.
You see Exodus 12:29 and say 'God is evil.' I, personally, decided to do more research on the subject, and have more answers.
First of all, Egypt had supposedly killed many more Hebrew boys than God killed Egyptians. He killed ALL males in Hebrew households, or at least most of them. He did this for a span of about 80 YEARS. It could have for been a single day, and the tally would STILL be higher. Actions are reciprocated back on the offender under God's 'eye for an eye' and 'tooth for a tooth' policy. This policy could be found in Confucianism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Greco-Roman and, yes, Egyptian literature. "The Teaching of Ankhsheshonqy".
Pharaoh caused all ten of the Plagues by refusing to let Israel go. He had firsthand knowledge of all the Plagues beforehand, and consented to their execution. Now we come upon the issue of 'God hardened his heart'.
In Greek and Hebrew, E.W. Bullinger noticed that they at times use active verbs to express an agents' design or attempt to do something. In Jeremiah 4:10 and Ezekiel 14:9, God did not 'decieve' anyone, as would be contrary to his nature, but allowed them to be decieved. Deuteronomy 26:68 originally meant "you shall be sold," but there is no buyer, because it means that "you will be allowed to or intend to be sold". Therefore, 'God hardened his heart' coould mean that 'God allowed his heart to harden.' Notice how the Exodus says Pharaoh hardened his own heart in many cases (8:15,32; 9:35)
Yet another interpretation of Exodus 7:3 is that it is a metonym. A metonym goes like this: "I am reading Shakespeare." You are not reading Shakespeare, but his particular works. Someone or something is said to have done something when an attribute of what they said actually did it. John 4:1-2. Jesus did not baptize people, his teachings caused them to be baptized. 1 Kings 22:52. Jeroboam didn't force people to sin, his actions did. Acts 16:14. God didn't open Lydia's heart, the words of his servant, Paul, did. Exodus 7:3. God didn't harden Pharaoh's heart: the words of his servant, Moses, did.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconten...ticle=1205
So we can say that Pharaoh willingfully caused the Ten Plagues to ravage his people. But, apparently, the Egyptians weren't so innocent either. Exodus 10:1, 14:17, and 1 Samuel 6:6 state that the Egyptians were just as bad as their Pharaoh. So that removes the innocence of pretty much everyone, except the kids.
In ancient society, in Egypt as well as Babylonia and Israel, children were punished for the sins of their parents. This punishment has nothing to do with sin being 'transferred' to other people. The firstborn son of a parent was an essential family member. First-born males recieved inheritance, could protect aging parents, and could perpetuate the family name, like last names allow them to do today. The loss was a judgement on the parents, and not God getting revenge on kids.
Also, there is an age of accountability at around 7-9. So, if we have firstborn males of hardened hearts dying after that age, they would have been accountable for their sins. Anyone who died before it would have gone to heaven, or, as the Catholics like to call it, 'limbo'. So we are left with the kids who died before their 8th birthday.
These particular kids were not punished, because that was not the intention. All that was needed from them was that their souls be absent from their bodies to produce the desired effect. Also, who's to say that their souls were not simply taken from their bodies during sleep? It was midnight, and I don't think that spiritual beings can walk around with bronze swords to hack the heads off about 69,000 kids in 8 hours.
http://christianthinktank.com/killheir.html
Note that God isn't simply siding with the Israelites. The entire Book of Judges is about God letting in foreign nations to conquer his own people. But God is only partial in the sense that he sides with the oppressed and works with them against the powerful. God isn't getting back at people, but judging them for their offenses and punishing them justly, despite what he feels for either side. Luke 19:41-43.
The Earth looks flat, but it is round. The Bible looks unsettling, but if you ask, you will eventually find someone who can answer.
That person may not necessarily be me. I'm just a Christian who THINKS he's found an answer.
