Exodus International shuts right the hell down.

[Drich]

Shall I let you in on a secret, Drich? Homosexual attraction isn't some cursed sigil on the heart of every gay man

Then why is one of the primary banners or goto defenses: 'We did not choose this life we were born this way?'

It's a sexual attraction, the same as any other

Which is the very point I have made in this thread at least 1/2 a dozen times alrready. Now just because it is a sexual desire does not mean one gets a pass on all obligation he may have with a wife, and family.

The same as heterosexual attraction. The reason we have people having gay sex is the same reason we have people having heterosexual sex; people like having sex. It's a natural instinct.

Which makes it no different than hetrosexcual sex in that it is also a sin if not sanctioned in the proper context.

The issue here is that you are making the gross error of treating homosexual attractions and sex as a problem intrinsically, something that needs to be fought against at all times, or else it's a "problem."

Nope. That's what you need me to argue inorder for your argument to work.

I suggest to you that it is not, and that the reason we have so many families troubled by same sex attraction is because we have a culture, influenced by religion, that has enforced heteronormative gender and sex roles and, until quite recently, a mostly violent and discriminatory response to those who break them.

This is not what is being discussed. Put your personal feelings aside and address the topic at hand.

I set a very specific set of parameters in play. One where a family man wakes up one day and realizes he has been gay all of his life, but has made a commitment to a wife and kids. This man seeks the help of a place like the one that is being discussed. My question was what happens to those guys? What happens to their families? Are they doomed to fail because people like you do not wish to acknoweledge them in favor of their own situations?

This is not about you or how hard it is to be a gay/bi man in a religious world. (or whatever you told me you were) Again this discussion concerns one situation out of the possiable millions of situations, which may effect thousands of lives.

The issue isn't in gay people leaving their families. It's in having a society that forced them into a familial configuration that doesn't fit right in the first place, rather than just allowing them to form one in a way that works for them.

Actually this is exactly what we are discussing. For what give a gay man the right to seek personal happiness over that of the Family he has vowed to Honor and protect?

The problem is this desperate need of religious groups to preserve their nuclear family ideal, no matter who they need to trample to make that the standard.

The problem is the agenda that has one seeking self wants/needs over those he has commited to love and protect. What is wrong with the world when we have to remind fathers to grow the f*** up and be men. To put their wants and desire aside for those who depend on him. For those he Literaly took a vow to die for! To be with till death!

Yes, but if you're married you might want to talk to the missus about it before you go ahead with it. And if she's not into it, keep it in your pants. And if she is but the cleaning lady isn't, same deal. Once again, the problem you're seeing has nothing to do with same sex attraction, but with infidelity.

Really?!?! So what if the Missus decides it is not ok for her Husban to be drilled in the can by some other dude? Must he too keep his pants on?

That's between you and your wife. What the hell is wrong with polyamory, anyway?

Paul identifies it as a "Thou shalt not" of the followers of Christ.

Agreed.

(To the gay man should be held to the same standards as herto men in marriage) So my question remains. If all the places like exodus int. shut down how or where will potentially gay men seek help? If the society deems that all antigay therapy is a sin against society then is every family man who has gay thoughts doomed, while straight men can easily find help for their extra martial urges?

Isn't that a little bit anti gay/inequality for those 'gay men' who want help? It's being gay hard enough, with out the militant gay guys who would force their life style down the throats (possiable pun intended) of every man who would even potentially be gay?

But then, there's a difference between developing a craving for, say, redheads, and living in a society that systematically enforces a preconception that your attraction to redheads is different and sinful, and deserving of punishment.

Who is looking to punish, God? If we are looking at God's punishment then know it is not restricted to unrepentant gay men. All unrepentant sinners are subject to this punishment. Christ Himself even extended this sin to include lustful hetro thoughts. So seeking help for sexual urges is not a gay only mandate.

There was an equality when it comes to helping men in general with their sexual urges with in the church. it is not limited to suppressing gay men. Now a big part of that equality is gone (and all who hate God said Amen) You all seem to abhor the idea of allowing a potentially gay man the freedom needed to choose his sexual orientation. You seem bent on the iidea that there is only one correct way to be gay and that is the flameist way possiable.

There's a difference between finding redheads attractive and being biologically predisposed to only find redheads attractive, and yet living in a society that forces you to hide that attraction and get married to a brunette, whom you can't find attractive, just to keep up appearances.

after 20 years and three kids, anything that shows you intrest that is not in your situation becomes extreamly attractive. There is nothing new here. Only the idea that one can now skirt his or her responsiablity if they fly the gay banner.

I agree with you that cheating isn't cool, but you have to admit that the situation is less in the gay man's control than it probably should be. He should get a divorce and be allowed to marry someone he's genuinely attracted to.

Oh wait, you guys aren't keen on either of those things, either...

Let me know what you come up with.