(June 25, 2013 at 10:48 pm)Godschild Wrote: How so?
max Wrote:You start with the premise - God is good. In that light anything you read of his actions are excused. In this thread we have examples of atrocities committed either in his name or on his direct order. For each you question whether it is actually an atrocity, what others were doing elsewhere in the world at that time and how we know the victims didn't somehow deserve their fate.
They were not atrocities, they were God's judgement on His sinful people, they actually agreed to punishment from God by an oath they made with God. How was God wrong in keeping up His end of the oath, if He had not then we would have cause to question Him.
max Wrote:If you were to read the Bible with no opinion as to whether God is good or not you might reach some very different conclusions. It would allow you to read the accounts as you might any other account of a crime being committed. Interestingly I very much doubt the mass murder of children (or anyone) would cause you to ask if they didn't deserve it somehow in ANY other case except that of the Bible.
God has made it quite clear as to why His people were going through this trouble in their lives, it's you who have not shown why God should not have punished them.
You want me to assume something in my life that can't be and then agree to what you see in scripture, now you are talking fantasy. I deal with what's real and stay away from suppose this, suppose that junk, it's not relevant to my life, actually it's just a waste of time.
max Wrote:All the time you appear to be utterly convinced you are right. That it doesn't strike you that others are equally convinced that they are right, but following a different path and therefore must be wrong according to you doesn't seem to register at all.
And you don't, you and other nonbelievers badger Christians with your relentless accusations and proclamations as to how wrong we are and, without one shred of evidence at that.
I defend what I believe and I will always do it with a positive attitude, I know what my experiences with God have revealed in my life. I've asked God to show me the answers I have about scripture and I do get answers, sometimes I get answers long after I ask, sometimes fairly quickly and some I'm still waiting on.
More registers with me than you will ever know, the problem I see is nothing registers with you about my beliefs. Yes I am convinced I'm correct about many things, or do you want me to say same on me for living a positive life.
max Wrote:If they are wrong - and you are certain of that - how can you be so certain you are not also wrong.
Living a negative on two different fronts, now that's what I call living.
There are many things I'm not certain about but, my life with Christ is not one of them.max Wrote:Take 9/11 for example. Those 16 men were utterly convinced that they were doing the right thing and that Allah would reward them in the afterlife. When I say utterly convinced - enough to give up their lives for. There can be no doubt that they believed in what they were doing 100%. Equally there can be no doubt that they were 100% in the wrong.
That's because they believe in a god that is brutal in nature, and they committed a brutal act of murder. Their god does not resemble mine in the least. God would never ask me or any of His followers to do such a thing, an atonement has been made for us.
max Wrote:Such strength of faith enabled the atrocities of history to be done. Your religion is not better than Islam in this respect - maybe just a little older and less impetuous these days but historically.....wow.
Two atheist leaders of modern history have killed more people than any and all of the atrocities committed by the misguided Christians of the past. I would say supposed Christians but someone would call out the no-true-scottsman.
max Wrote:Just suppose you are wrong. Now look at history from Biblical times forwards. How horrific has Judeo-Christianity been? I mean without the blinkers of faith.
That's how we see it. Shocking huh.
Here you go again asking me to suppose the irrelevant in my life, to dismiss my beliefs, just so you can what, convince me that some actions of atrocities were committed by the church, I know what has happened in the past and probably far better than you will ever. You think you can change my mind when Satan and all his power has failed.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
