RE: Four questions for Christians
July 3, 2013 at 6:10 pm
(This post was last modified: July 3, 2013 at 6:18 pm by Consilius.)
On Elisha killing children in 2 Kings 2:23-24
They weren't children. The Hebrew word neurim qetannim means "young man": between the ages of 12 and 30. Isaac was in his early twenties when he is nearly sacrificed in Genesis 22:12, and Joseph is seventeen in Genesis 37:2.
Elisha had finished revoking an earlier curse on the nearby city of Jericho (Joshua 6:26) by making its water clean (2 Kings 2:19-22). Elisha was a prophet, a representative of God, as he had proven not long ago, and the insults were not going to him but to the God he stood for. This isn't very surprising, since he was traveling through an area of Israelite pagan worship (1 Kings 12:32). These men, if not pagan priests themselves, clearly were pagan worshippers.
Elisha responded to this threat to his prophetic mission by cursing them in the name of the God he stood for, and the one they were insulting. There is no evidence he prayed for any type of punishment at all, rather, God executed the curse by sending bears to maul them. That 42 of these men were captured and mauled by two bears suggests that there could have been many more people gathered against this one man.
This wasn't playful teasing from a few kids, but a mass gathering of pagans against God's messenger.
"For whoever will save his life shall lose it: and whoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matthew 16:25-26
I can't think of someone being killed on the basis of their thoughts. If you are referring to the process of "giving consent", the legal system today still punishes people for allowing crimes to happen under their acknowledgement. You are no different from the person actually doing a crime if you think it is a good thing to do, because you enjoy the fact that it has been done.
I also don't recall an example of someone being punished for something they would have done in the future or God prescribing such.
They weren't children. The Hebrew word neurim qetannim means "young man": between the ages of 12 and 30. Isaac was in his early twenties when he is nearly sacrificed in Genesis 22:12, and Joseph is seventeen in Genesis 37:2.
Elisha had finished revoking an earlier curse on the nearby city of Jericho (Joshua 6:26) by making its water clean (2 Kings 2:19-22). Elisha was a prophet, a representative of God, as he had proven not long ago, and the insults were not going to him but to the God he stood for. This isn't very surprising, since he was traveling through an area of Israelite pagan worship (1 Kings 12:32). These men, if not pagan priests themselves, clearly were pagan worshippers.
Elisha responded to this threat to his prophetic mission by cursing them in the name of the God he stood for, and the one they were insulting. There is no evidence he prayed for any type of punishment at all, rather, God executed the curse by sending bears to maul them. That 42 of these men were captured and mauled by two bears suggests that there could have been many more people gathered against this one man.
This wasn't playful teasing from a few kids, but a mass gathering of pagans against God's messenger.
(July 3, 2013 at 5:55 pm)Ryantology Wrote:The Bible verse you quoted has to do with spiritual death, as you probably know. Life without God (morals), the source of "life", is death.(July 3, 2013 at 5:27 pm)Consilius Wrote: Can you back up that claim?
For the wages of sin is death...
Appealing to an inherently paradoxical and terribly flawed concept of predestination was fr0d0's way of explaining how it was a good thing that Amalekite children were put to the sword. Whether or not this is legit, you really have to take up with him, because I think it's all bunk and there's no consensus within the Christian religion on almost anything.
If it is the last sentence you wish to have verified, there lacks any example I am aware of in human history which prescribed the death penalty for every imaginable crime, including thoughtcrimes or crimes which were not committed in the past (after all, how could such a society sustain itself more than a few months at best?). Humans have a distressing tendency towards violence and revenge masquerading as justice, but as God never bothers justifying or explaining most of the rules he invented, and Christians apparently are okay with that, but there aren't many people outside of mental hospitals (or who really belong in one) who view, as just, a system in which virtually everything you do is a crime and every crime deserves death.
"For whoever will save his life shall lose it: and whoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matthew 16:25-26
I can't think of someone being killed on the basis of their thoughts. If you are referring to the process of "giving consent", the legal system today still punishes people for allowing crimes to happen under their acknowledgement. You are no different from the person actually doing a crime if you think it is a good thing to do, because you enjoy the fact that it has been done.
I also don't recall an example of someone being punished for something they would have done in the future or God prescribing such.
