RE: Four questions for Christians
July 4, 2013 at 2:50 pm
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2013 at 2:59 pm by pineapplebunnybounce.)
(July 4, 2013 at 2:08 pm)Consilius Wrote:(July 4, 2013 at 1:19 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: Did I not bring up the ancient chinese's punishment where they kill all the relatives of the offender? Even children? Evidence shows that it isn't always wrong to people, people used to do these things thinking they're right. If you want to dispute this please bring up evidence.I was referring to the crime of murder in my example. Capital punishment is not done without it being required by law, no matter how terrible. Maybe the ancient Chinese had stronger family ties.
Right now, you don't need it written down. Because that's what we are now, we are the product of the evolution of human morality. If we didn't need it written down, why is it such a big thing that your god included it in the ten commandments? Because back then people DO need it written down. So when the people who came up with your religion attempted to make laws to govern people, not killing was one of the big ones.
Even now there are minority of people who kill people and they don't think it's wrong. Clearly not everyone in the world knows this. For these people, it's because of the law that they refrain from acts like this. Sometimes they don't and they end up in the newspaper.
Both. What's the difference? By doing the second we invented the first.
What's wrong with prehistoric people? They came before us. Just like i'm ok with saying mathematics was invented by an ancient group of people, i'm ok with saying our morality came from our ancestors, who learned the hard way. Our morality and laws are still evolving even to this day. A very good example is the gay rights movement. Just few decades ago people think being homosexual is morally wrong. But now it's legal for gays to marry just like normal people. We are inventing a world where being gay is ok by changing the laws. And people's morality tend to lag behind a bit. Now there are still people walking around thinking gays are an abomination. But 100 years from now they will be the extreme minority. Because as a whole, our morality would have adapted.
To me it's so obviously absurd to say being gay is immoral. But it's not so obvious for a lot of people. It used to be that way for killing innocent people.
The Israelites already knew that murder was wrong, but it needed to be reinforced in the Torah because people bend the laws and the Ten Commandment served as a check-and-balance. The Jews later formed a dependency on this law in the aftermath of Adam's sin but God foretold that they wouldn't need it spelled out for them, because God's law would be "written on their hearts" in the New Testament (Jeremiah 31:33).
Look, you cannot pick and choose as you wish in this discussion. You said killing the innocent. If my uncle committed a crime, am I guilty? it's as simple as that. What excuse you use to kill an innocent doesn't matter. Are you saying if i do something and call it punishment that makes everything ok? Either you don't have a moral compass, or you are willing to live with a lot less rights than me. What do you mean the ancient chinese had stronger family ties? If you want to champion this law you'll have to do a lot better. They had that law for the same reason your god killed children as punishment. It's a bigger deterrent than just killing 1 person, if you tell them you'll kill all their relatives. We've already been through this with your god's punishment, and now we have to repeat everything with this one? please, just agree that it's wrong to kill innocent people whether or not it's in the guise of capital punishment. And ironically your response just shows that it's not all that clear to you that killing innocent people is wrong. So you really have just proved my point, again.
If they know it's wrong, why do they bend the laws? What is right and wrong is very different from what is legal and illegal. As I tried to illustrate in my previous post. You don't do what you think is wrong, because you think it's wrong. You don't do what is illegal, because you're afraid of the punishment. So which is it? Do they know it's wrong or are they refraining from murder because they're afraid of the punishment? You cannot have it both ways.
You are also making a positive claim (that the jewish people knew murder was wrong) without evidence. Please provide that. Not a bible quote, you can use it, you just won't convince me.
Are you still standing with your position that everyone on earth knows that killing is wrong? If so please explain all the murderers who murdered thinking they won't get caught and then got caught.
Btw, I really don't care about your bible's prophecies, it will hold no weight in this discussion. So maybe you can leave that out next time because to me, some dude in 1920s may have said one day gays will be able to marry in this country. And that doesn't change my world view at all. The only difference is that no one wrote it down when he said it. That's all prophecy is to me. It's better if you'll tell me what you actually think, and why you think so.