RE: Four questions for Christians
July 10, 2013 at 1:30 am
(This post was last modified: July 10, 2013 at 1:46 am by Consilius.)
(July 9, 2013 at 10:23 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote:I don't think you have contradicted anything, so…Quote:Goad hates the witness conditionally: because he is a liar. His lying is the variable that must be present for the hate to exist.
Same with the troublemaker (your second example).
"Esau" is being used to refer to both him and his descendants, the Edomites. Esau did not own mountains in his Genesis account. The hate exists because Esau forfeited his birthright, his spiritual responsibility to his family. The Edomites followed suit and fought against Israel, God's people.
God hates those who choose violence simply because they chose violence. God does not hate a specific group of violent people, but no matter who you are, if you are a violent person, you will be hated on the account of your violence.Quote:Hate needs to be leveled at actions, not at people. If you hate someone for who they are and not for what they do, the hate is sinful.I was attempting to do this entire reply with just your own quotes. but i can't help but point out that you assume that god doesn't hate the troublemaker forever. I have a bible verse that says otherwise, it also responds to your next point, so i'll post it below.
Quote:God hates sin and those who follow it because sin is contrary to his existence. If you repent of sin, you are now out of range of the hate that is still being levelled at sin.Hebrews 10: 26 For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, or raging fire that will consume the enemies.
Quote:If you hate someone because they offended you, you are doing wrong because you are not in the position to judge him for what he did. You should also not hold a grudge, because you are levelling your hate at the person now that the sin has long passed. All you have to do is blantantly love your offender.I'm not sure if you're talking to me now, or if you're just saying this is how it works for everyone, or if you're saying this is how it works according to your interpretation of the bible. The only one that's relevant is the 3rd option, but i'm not sure what you're responding to or if you're bringing up a new point or ...?
And I wasn't referring to you in that last part.
(July 9, 2013 at 11:07 pm)Ryantology Wrote:Free will means that you can do both good or evil without God physically pushing you in either direction. If I do wrong, I am responsible for what I did and deserve punishment for it, but that does not mean that the evil I did thwarts any former plans of God. God knew what I would do beforehand and plans were made to accommodate it, but he did not ask or intend that I did it.(July 9, 2013 at 10:04 pm)Consilius Wrote: God hates those who choose violence simply because they chose violence. God does not hate a specific group of violent people, but no matter who you are, if you are a violent person, you will be hated on the account of your violence.
God, being omnipotent and omniscient, is capable of solving any imaginable problem without using even a hint of violence both in the sense that he can invent any solution and apply it flawlessly without any possibility of being hindered in any way. Because this is necessarily true, it is also necessarily true that God chooses violence simply because he chooses violence, as there can be no other reason why he would. If this is not true, then his omnipotence and omniscience are both also untrue.
If we agree that human life is sacred, we agree that ending a life without necessity (or consent on the part of the victim) is evil. This means that God is evil. The only way to avoid this is to make a completely unjustified special exception for God, whose rules of right and wrong do not seem to apply to his own behavior.
Quote:In the OT, God repays people for what they do, as people repaid other people for what they did. If you killed or attempted to kill another person, it became necessary that you were killed as punishment for what you did. Or is this an unjust law?Also, if you hate a person because they did something you had complete foreknowledge of and total power (plus complete reluctance) to prevent, if this is, as many Christians insist, all a part of your master plan, your hate is unjustified, because it is your fault as much as it is the perpetrator's. Free will does not abrogate ultimate responsibility.
Simply because the government has emergency services for road accident victims and has determined the compensation I owe them does not make it OK if I cause a road accident, although the potential victim will have his health restored because of government planning.