(July 10, 2013 at 1:21 pm)Tonus Wrote:(July 10, 2013 at 12:40 am)Godschild Wrote: Satan had been eyeing Job for a while, he admitted to it,
Well, yeah. In the story, he quickly takes the bait that god dangles before him. The writer seems to see god as a bronze-age Barry Bonds; exceedingly arrogant, but he can deliver on his boasts. I think a more compelling story would have given the devil a reason for being there, instead of the implication that we get today, that no one seemed at all perturbed by the fact that god's greatest enemy (who had royally messed things up and led both humans and angels astray) was given leave to wander about heaven as he wished. Adam and Eve? Dead. Humanity? Cursed. Satan? Gets to hang with god and tha' boyz.
This does support the idea that the devil was once considered a member of god's court and not the serpent of the Genesis tale. In the story of Job, we can see the devil not as a simpering, sniveling whiner, but as someone who scolds god for undermining Job's free will. God, realizing that his counselor is making a good point, agrees to let Job be put to the test. In other words, god acquiesces to Satan's demands. The god of the NT is said to be perfect and loving, and the devil is his bitter and savage enemy. You couldn't really write the Job story with those two characters, IMO. There'd be a fist-fight the moment satan entered the Holy Glory Hole Bar & Saloon.
And I think that an NT god would have answered an NT Satan very differently, as well. Their conversation should have gone thusly:
God: Have you noticed my servant Job? A god-fearing and good man?
Satan: Well of course he serves you! You protect him and provide for his needs. What would happen if you withdrew your protection and help?
God: He would remain faithful through even the worst that could be thrown at him.
Satan: Pfft! How would you know? Go on, test him!
God: I am god, I know everything. And I cannot lie. Besides, he's old enough to have amassed a fortune and ten kids. You don't think he had his faith tested plenty of times? Why do think I favor him so?
Satan: This is getting boring. Where's Jesus? I can always get a rise out of him.
God: *slaps the devil*
Or god could have pointed out that of course he protects Job... that's kind of how it all works! Serve god and follow his rules, and life goes well for you. Turn from god and suffer the consequences. Why would god agree to put Job to the test???
But that's exactly what he does. He allows the devil to yank the rug out from under Job's feet and murder dozens, perhaps hundreds of people. All to prove a point that was unnecessary to prove. That's just awful.
You are talking out both sides of your mouth, at one point you say God is denying Job of his free will, and then you propose an idea that God should keep His protection upon Job. You have invalidated your own argument.
God did not bait Satan, God put Satan to the test, do you real think the Book of Job is only about Job, then you have not studied the book at all. Satan was the serpent in the garden, he is referred to as the serpent of old who deceived. Satan was thrown out of heaven before the fall of Adam and Eve.
God does not promise an easy life nor a prosperous life for those who serve Him, not in a way you could understand, the good life He promises for those who chose Christ is a spiritual one.
Now for what happened at the council, God asked Satan if he had seen Job and all that he had, Satan being jealous told God he would not have had all that if God had not protected him and prospered him. It was Satan who proposed that Job would not be faithful to God if God removed that protection, in other words Satan challenged God, not the other way around as you claim. God was reminding Satan what he had given up because of his betrayal of God, this is what God was saying to Satan when He asked Satan if he had noticed Job.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.