RE: God his own Enemy
July 11, 2013 at 1:20 pm
(This post was last modified: July 11, 2013 at 1:21 pm by Tonus.)
(July 10, 2013 at 3:20 pm)Godschild Wrote: You are talking out both sides of your mouth, at one point you say God is denying Job of his free will, and then you propose an idea that God should keep His protection upon Job. You have invalidated your own argument.I was not making an argument as much as I was considering the story from various angles, some of which are bound to contradict. I think the idea that god involving himself with humans violates free will is nonsense, but since it's an argument that is put forth, I thought to consider it in the context of the story of Job.
Quote:God did not bait Satan, God put Satan to the test, do you real think the Book of Job is only about Job, then you have not studied the book at all. Satan was the serpent in the garden, he is referred to as the serpent of old who deceived. Satan was thrown out of heaven before the fall of Adam and Eve.My point was that god brought the issue up, and practically goaded Satan into responding. That's in keeping with the brash god of the OT, but to a modern-day reader it's not a very flattering portrayal. Better to have made the devil the instigator and thus show his nature, but it's possible that the devil as understood by the writer of the book of Job is vastly different from the one in the NT. It's not until the NT that satan is identified as the serpent from the Genesis story, isn't it?
Quote:God does not promise an easy life nor a prosperous life for those who serve Him, not in a way you could understand, the good life He promises for those who chose Christ is a spiritual one.I can recall that on at least a couple of occasions, god promised the Israelites good fortune if they followed his laws, and bad results if they turned from him. Why wouldn't god promise a better life for those who serve him? If he truly was concerned for the welfare of all people, someone like Job would have been a terrific example of what could be gained by serving god, which is what he wants from humanity, isn't it? Why does god work against his own purposes? That makes no sense.
Quote:Now for what happened at the council, God asked Satan if he had seen Job and all that he had, Satan being jealous told God he would not have had all that if God had not protected him and prospered him. It was Satan who proposed that Job would not be faithful to God if God removed that protection, in other words Satan challenged God, not the other way around as you claim. God was reminding Satan what he had given up because of his betrayal of God, this is what God was saying to Satan when He asked Satan if he had noticed Job.God teases Satan with the knowledge that Job is under his protection, knowing that Satan is jealous and will react... but you don't think that god baited Satan? Errr... okay.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
-Stephen Jay Gould