Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: September 29, 2026, 6:32 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc?
#28
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc?
At this point, I'd like to throw out three things: One, fine-tuning isn't a problem that needs to be answered. It's a speculation based on a mental exercise. We don't know which, if any of the constants could have been different than they are, or how much they could vary or what the probability of different values are. All there is to fine-tuning can be summed up as 'if all of these constants could vary by a high degree in a relatively even probabablistic range with the value of none of them being determined by the value of any of the others, it would be really unlikely for any universe with specific values for its constants to exist, including ours.' Until there's evidence that the above statement is true, it isn't justifiable to actually claim that our universe is 'fine-tuned'. Positing explanations for why it could be true if it is is just thought experiments.

Two: Multiple universes were proposed before fine-tuning was, it wasn't made up to answer fine-tuning. An already existing hypothesis was co-opted as a possible explanation for why the universe might appear to be fine-tuned if the above speculation turned out to be true.

Three: Given One, it just isn't valid to look at an event that has already happened and declare it was too unlikely to have happened by chance. The odds against any given hand of Bridge is billions to one; and you can deal out billions-to-one hands until your arms drop off. It's easy to do incredibly improbable things...as long as you don't specify the hand in advance. If you deal the exact hand in the exact order you pre-specified, THAT is surprising. What fine-tuners are doing is the equivalent of a first time Bridge-player looking at the first bridge hand they've ever been dealt, seeing that it's precisely the hand they needed to win, and concluding that the dealer must have cheated in their favor...when ANY hand they were dealt would be equally improbable. It ain't necessarily so. Under fine-tuning, no other pre-specified universe is more probable than ours is. Ours just has something in it capable of being surprised by how improbable their universe (given One being true).
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc? - by genkaus - July 26, 2013 at 9:21 am
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc? - by genkaus - July 26, 2013 at 11:45 am
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc? - by genkaus - July 31, 2013 at 1:50 am
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc? - by Chas - July 26, 2013 at 10:04 am
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc? - by Mister Agenda - July 26, 2013 at 4:15 pm
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc? - by Chas - July 26, 2013 at 6:12 pm
RE: Isn't the fine tuning argument ad hoc? - by genkaus - August 4, 2013 at 6:12 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Isn’t pantheism the same thing as atheism? Ferrocyanide 177 45063 January 1, 2022 at 2:36 am
Last Post: Ferrocyanide
  A Working Draft Design Argument Acrobat 54 16445 October 19, 2019 at 10:28 am
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  How to destroy any argument for God Drich 46 13403 October 9, 2019 at 9:02 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  How To Support Any Argument For God BrianSoddingBoru4 0 967 August 26, 2019 at 4:52 pm
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  How To Easily Defend Any Argument For God BrianSoddingBoru4 5 1932 August 22, 2019 at 9:13 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Every Apologetic Argument Ever YahwehIsTheWay 21 6511 December 1, 2018 at 7:15 pm
Last Post: T0 Th3 M4X
  Argument from pompousness? Fake Messiah 8 2225 September 1, 2018 at 12:34 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  The witness argument (yet again, I know, I know) Mystic 81 29159 August 19, 2018 at 10:43 am
Last Post: Jackie
  Being Catholic isn't an ethnic thing. Joods 0 1338 March 12, 2018 at 8:36 am
Last Post: Joods
  Very short argument for God (another clear proof) Mystic 123 47281 January 26, 2018 at 8:54 pm
Last Post: Succubus



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)